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Post by madmorgan on Feb 21, 2016 17:15:24 GMT
The idea of a German/British alliance would certainly change things won't it! And the Balken alliances might shift as well. Would put the French in an awkward position ref New Orleans commitments entirely. More thoughts and justifications needed.
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Post by zenth93 on Feb 21, 2016 17:44:46 GMT
What humanity needs is a united alliance, a League of Nations perhaps......
also Tesla electric arch weapons would be nice to mount on zeppelins.
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Post by boxholder on Feb 21, 2016 19:05:38 GMT
To mess up redoubts, let us consider the tactics that technologically inferior combatants have historically used: mass attacks. In this case, I would suggest the use of huge numbers of unguided rockets fired salvo style. Think WW-2 Kathyusha (USSR -Stalin's Organ), Nebelwerfer (Nazi Germany - Screaming Mimi), Sherman Calliope (US). Move large numbers of small vehicles carrying launchers to within few kilometers of the target, coordinate and predetermine a launch time, and let rip.
Hordes of unguided rockets could be ideal for really messing up a redoubt, a large area target. Launchers can be very light and a single vehicle can carry and fire dozens. Any kind of vehicle could carry a few. Even an infantry trooper can carry one. The rockets arrive on target at a tremendous rate, much faster than tube artillery can deliver the same number of rounds. They arrive so quickly that no kind of defense can stop them. They can be made to carry HE, smoke, or incendiary payloads. Quick reload time means that a second salvo can be fired a couple of minutes after the first, catching survivors trying to recover from the shock of the first salvo.
The rockets are low tech with simple impact fuzing, well within the technical capability of the early 1900's. This is one area where the British might be very helpful. They had been using rocket artillery since about 1805.
Exploiting smoke rounds to limit the effect of defensive heat rays, direct-fire artillery and infantry could assault redoubts with reasonable chances of success. Sappers, "Forlorn Hope" assault troops or other storm troops could be used to infiltrate the defenses, closely following up the rocket bombardment before the victims can recover.
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Post by boxholder on Feb 21, 2016 19:31:03 GMT
To mess up redoubts, let us consider the tactics that technologically inferior combatants have historically used: mass attacks. In this case, I would suggest the use of huge numbers of unguided rockets fired salvo style. Think WW-2 Kathyusha (USSR -Stalin's Organ), Nebelwerfer (Nazi Germany - Screaming Mimi), Sherman Calliope (US). Move large numbers of small vehicles carrying launchers to within few kilometers of the target, coordinate and predetermine a launch time, and let rip. Hordes of unguided rockets could be ideal for really messing up a redoubt, a large area target. Launchers can be very light and a single vehicle can carry and fire dozens. Any kind of vehicle could carry a few. Even an infantry trooper can carry one. The rockets arrive on target at a tremendous rate, much faster than tube artillery can deliver the same number of rounds. They arrive so quickly that no kind of defense can stop them. They can be made to carry HE, smoke, or incendiary payloads. Quick reload time means that a second salvo can be fired a couple of minutes after the first, catching survivors trying to recover from the shock of the first salvo. The rockets are low tech with simple impact fuzing, well within the technical capability of the early 1900's. This is one area where the British might be very helpful. They had been using rocket artillery since about 1805. Exploiting smoke rounds to limit the effect of defensive heat rays, direct-fire artillery and infantry could assault redoubts with reasonable chances of success. Sappers, "Forlorn Hope" assault troops or other storm troops could be used to infiltrate the defenses, closely following up the rocket bombardment before the victims can recover. problem is getting over the redoubt wall we are not talking about a pile of dirt a couple feet high but a large mound of dirt several feet high if not more and it is loose dirt so vehicles would not be an option and there are not enough humans to storm those things. Tanks with a dozer blades on the front would not be any kind of technical stretch. Remember the WW-2 experience in hedgerow country which spawned the Cullen Hedgerow Cutter on the front of a Sherman tank. Some of the hedgerows were 10-12 feet high and laced together with vegetation roots, making them much tougher than loosely piled dirt.
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Post by charleybourne on Feb 21, 2016 20:26:45 GMT
The idea of a German/British alliance would certainly change things won't it! And the Balken alliances might shift as well. Would put the French in an awkward position ref New Orleans commitments entirely. More thoughts and justifications needed. Why awkward for the French? They can just continue looking after their interests in New Orleans and not attack the Brits. The unoccupied parts of the USA could be divided in sectors for allied assistance. Some could involve any and all allies whereas others would only support certain factions i.e. the French in New Orleans. This could be encouraged by the Germans having rejected the French suggestion for an anti-British alliance. Maybe a special rule for allied Brits and French - something that requires a role to perform certain tasks when in alliance? The Germans could in fact be the lead figure in zenth93's League of (anti-Martian) Nations. Let's turn history right on it's head with this one!!...
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Post by boxholder on Feb 21, 2016 20:44:52 GMT
Tanks with a dozer blades on the front would not be any kind of technical stretch. Remember the WW-2 experience in hedgerow country which spawned the Cullen Hedgerow Cutter on the front of a Sherman tank. Some of the hedgerows were 10-12 feet high and laced together with vegetation roots, making them much tougher than loosely piled dirt. trust me when I say dirt is more firm then any hedgerow, bullets will not be stopped by a hedgerow, unlike dirt which will stop bullets and even cannon shells. I think you may have a wrong impression of hedgerows in Normandy. They were NOT simple rows of privet hedge. Quoted from Combat Lessons No.4: FIGHTING IN NORMANDY Bucking the Hedgerows The terrain in the area selected for the initial penetration of French soil was generally level or gently sloping. However, it was broken up into a "crazy quilt" pattern of small fields separated by "hedgerows." These consisted of an earthen mound or wall 8 to 10 feet in width and 4 to 6 feet in height, covered with a scrub undergrowth. Along the top of this wall grew rows of trees. Forming an important part of the obstacle thus created was the ditch which ran along one or both sides of the mound. The roads, narrow and winding, ran between these hedgerows, and offered the defenders many advantageous positions for ambuscades or surprise attacks on advancing foot-troops and armor. Observation was normally limited from one hedgerow to the next, although an occasional structure, such as the church tower in a village would widen the horizon. These peculiarities of terrain led to the development of special operational techniques in the application of tactical principles. Quoted below are some experience reports, from the battlefield, of hedgerow fighting. Cross Section of Typical Normandy Hedgerow.
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Post by charleybourne on Feb 21, 2016 20:53:35 GMT
Would factions within Germany work? Given the individual state nature at the time perhaps Prussia for example was pro the 'alliance' and Bavaria was pro the 'side against the Brits'?
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Post by scottwashburn on Feb 21, 2016 22:07:51 GMT
I have my Martians build large bulldozer-like earth-movers and create a rampart that is taller than a tripod with the outer face all loose rocks and as steep as possible. It's basically impassible to vehicles. The top is studded with the heat ray sentry towers. So it is a tough nut to crack even if artillery or bombing can silence the heat ray towers. Airborne assault faces the same difficulty as the real airborne attacks in WWII: the airborne forces have real difficulty bringing along heavy weapons. So a lightly armed infantry force facing Martian tripods would be like the British airborne at Arnhem facing Tigers and Panthers. Raw courage can overcome some of the problems, but only at a terrible price. And with no guarantee of victory. Still, a coordinated air and ground attack might be the best bet.
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Post by charleybourne on Feb 21, 2016 22:16:51 GMT
Tunneling. Very real in the IRL timeline. Add the AQ treatment for some sort of tunnelling vehicle???
Don't tackle the threat head on - go under it!
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Post by scottwashburn on Feb 21, 2016 23:47:26 GMT
Of course we know nothing about what goes on in their underground facility. How big are the tunnels? Can the tripods fit down them or is there just a big hanger where they park the tripods and then use smaller transports inside? What sort of defenses and weapons do they have inside? It might be a cake-walk for human infantry or a death trap depending on what's down there.
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Post by madmorgan on Feb 21, 2016 23:56:28 GMT
We seem to have two threads going here - as far as the Human Alliance, I see no reason to change 'history' atm. Theres no good reason anymore for the Germans to want to wait for the Martians (or Venusians if you go with my new forces) to strike. And the Balkans will sort themselves out or perish. With regards to the French, they've put aside a lot to help the USA and frankly the 'unholy' alliance with the Germans was a little odd - so why not?! I suppose a rule keeping the various forces apart would be necessary, something along the line of 'no EU power may fight along side another' or 'except for the USA, no other national force may fight together with another national force'?? As to the redoubt - the rocket barrage, followed by an airborne assault with armor support at some point is the best tactic I'd think. Especially if said redoubt is anywhere near a river that can support ships to add into the fun. More thoughts and an OOB is in the making.
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Post by madmorgan on Feb 22, 2016 0:22:55 GMT
1. Well, I agree there is no reading on this French thing. So you're right. But, I've introduced French and Foreign Legion troops by having the Regulars supporting USA in New Olreans area and the Canadians up north. It definately isn't canon - but, see my threads on French troops elsewhere. This is just a fantasy to get some French troops in action. But, it also would make some sense from a spy/training idea. 2. I agree, a Redoubt would probably never be built next to a body of water. If there was one, it would be the prime target for the attack, giving not only riverine forces work but allowing armor to be ferried in. Wouldn't happen unfortunately.
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Post by madmorgan on Feb 22, 2016 0:59:33 GMT
You are correct to some extent on the FFL - but, it was grown into a 'hotspot' organization within a few years of the Algeria situation. I agree that the Canon is set with the French out of the picture. I support a different canon however, one with more forces and variety to the human endeavor. The naval forces could easily put any type of troops into New Orleans.
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Post by scottwashburn on Feb 22, 2016 1:52:20 GMT
I could see the French hanging on to some of the port cities like Algiers, Oran and Casablanca. They have a powerful navy to lend support to the defenses. But in that case the Foreign Lgion would be there and not somewhere else.
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Post by scottwashburn on Feb 22, 2016 3:07:39 GMT
Hmm, I can see a slightly different ending to Beau Geste as the Martians overrun Fort Zinderneuf!
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