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Post by boxholder on Sept 28, 2017 22:53:47 GMT
As a result of the testing of the Martian heat rays by Tesla, it became evident that, at ranges of 3,000 yards or more, ordinary cloth would not ignite after long exposure. (page 47 in Breakthroughs)
This is immensely important to the human cause: It means that Zeppelins flying at 9,000 feet or more will not be harmed by the heat rays. Zepps were known to be able to exceed this altitude. It is worth noting that the testing was against stationary targets with long dwell times. Firing against a moving Zeppelin would be more difficult, especially if long dwell times are needed. This is aggravated by the invisible ray when fired through the air, which does not make it easy to adjust fire.
With even minimal protection added, like a thin, highly polished aluminum foil skin added to the underside, even the hydrogen filled Zeppelins are probably mission survivable. With addition of rudimentary radios (being introduced), these can become extremely long-range, long duration scouting and patrol ships. They might even be used to deliver and recover raiding parties deep into Martian held territory. Bombing accuracy would be problematic from this altitude, but a holdfast is a large target that might be attacked, especially with gas bombs.
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Post by David N.Tanner 07011959 on Sept 29, 2017 1:15:14 GMT
This is excellent news.
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Post by scarapis on Sept 29, 2017 5:44:04 GMT
One Problem at the Time Zeppelins were mostly a German product. and right now they are not giving up any of their technology.
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Post by scottwashburn on Sept 29, 2017 11:29:14 GMT
I'm tickled to have my book being cited as a reference source!  It is an interesting question and I admit that I love the idea of rigid airships (no matter what you call them). None have shown up in my books so far because the Americans were very slow to show any interest in them in real life. But now I'm moving on to the second trilogy which will look at the other great powers so there will definitely be some Zeppelins floating around. |
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Post by boxholder on Sept 29, 2017 13:05:18 GMT
The press of wartime would make adoption and adaptation of German products happen much faster. Once the outines of the technology are known (successful) imitation is much quicker.
The first user answers the technical question "Can I build...?" The next user then asks the question "How can I build...?" The first question is a research and development question with a possibly unknown outcome. The second one is engineering of a known technology. This goes much faster. Although it had taken decades for the Zeppelin to develop before WW-1, a post war cooperative effort by Goodyear and Zeppelin fielded the first US rigids by the early 1920's. These incorporated some uniquely US technology as well as improvements that Zeppelin had made.
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Post by scarapis on Sept 29, 2017 13:24:43 GMT
But like I said, America never really invested in the Zeppelin we got their smaller cousins the Blimp but even that came later and was only for war spotting (hot air balloon during civil war and Blimps used during WWI) but then again Blimps would not get the height to avoid the beams, meanwhile Germany is not giving up any technology, as far as they are concerned they are playing catch up with the Brits (and in a smaller sense America) and they are on a war footing not with Martians but other Europeans, meanwhile America never invested heavily into Zeppelins and such but once powered flight became an option they went bat crazy for that.
As it goes the game designers I feel did us a disservice by making Germany neutral at best and enemy most likely, yeah they were looking for other groups to field, but the German mechanical expertise could have helped the US come up with all kinds of designs maybe even our own walkers and such. Check out "War of the Worlds: Goliath" if you have not heard of it for an idea of what we could have done with a united Earth instead of a divided one.
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Post by scottwashburn on Sept 29, 2017 13:42:37 GMT
Sadly any lighter-than-airships will have to depend on hydrogen. The only source of helium in quantity was the gas fields in the Texas-Oklahoma panhandle areas and in this time line those aren't going to be developed any time soon.
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Post by scarapis on Sept 29, 2017 13:54:31 GMT
Sadly any lighter-than-airships will have to depend on hydrogen. The only source of helium in quantity was the gas fields in the Texas-Oklahoma panhandle areas and in this time line those aren't going to be developed any time soon. Whats wrong with an airship that blows up if you even look at it sideways  |
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Post by boxholder on Sept 29, 2017 16:56:49 GMT
That's why tactics must evolve to minimize vulnerability and exploit the strengths. Maintaining ranges above 3000 yards (combination of range and elevation) cuts the likelihood of a critical hit. Adding a bit of high reflectivity foil also works to help survivability without a lot of weight.
FWIW: "in 1931 the airship Graf Zeppelin began offering regular scheduled passenger service between Germany and South America which continued until 1937. During its career Graf Zeppelin crossed the South Atlantic 136 times." This is hardly an "airship that explodes if you even look at it sideways." Attention to detail and disciplined operations made this possible.
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Post by scarapis on Sept 29, 2017 21:29:53 GMT
That's why tactics must evolve to minimize vulnerability and exploit the strengths. Maintaining ranges above 3000 yards (combination of range and elevation) cuts the likelihood of a critical hit. Adding a bit of high reflectivity foil also works to help survivability without a lot of weight. FWIW: "in 1931 the airship Graf Zeppelin began offering regular scheduled passenger service between Germany and South America which continued until 1937. During its career Graf Zeppelin crossed the South Atlantic 136 times." This is hardly an "airship that explodes if you even look at it sideways." Attention to detail and disciplined operations made this possible. Problem is, then why not have an army of nothing but Zeppelins that drop bombs or whatever down on the tripods, game over. And Hindenburg, nuff said |
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Post by boxholder on Sept 30, 2017 1:04:38 GMT
Why not...? Because it takes time to build, equip, crew, and train any new technology. Plus, there are other demands for resources. Add this to bureaucratic inertia and it takes time to adopt. Then too, there is the fact that Zepps can do some things that aeroplanes cannot and vice versa. Each has a place in the spectrum of technology. You don't want to rely on a single technology.
Note that the AQMF Martian invasion has only been underway for a few years. We will just have to wait and see where the AQMF storyline goes.
Wise (= long lived) Zeppelin crews avoided the vicinity of thunderstorms...nuff said.
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Post by scarapis on Sept 30, 2017 3:20:52 GMT
Why not...? Because it takes time to build, equip, crew, and train any new technology. Plus, there are other demands for resources. Add this to bureaucratic inertia and it takes time to adopt. Then too, there is the fact that Zepps can do some things that aeroplanes cannot and vice versa. Each has a place in the spectrum of technology. You don't want to rely on a single technology. Note that the AQMF Martian invasion has only been underway for a few years. We will just have to wait and see where the AQMF storyline goes. Wise (= long lived) Zeppelin crews avoided the vicinity of thunderstorms...nuff said. You do realize to even the playing field the Martians would have to get some flyers which would make Zeppelins slow moving targets for them. |
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Post by scottwashburn on Sept 30, 2017 10:34:28 GMT
I think that in any game of All Quiet, the zeppelin would be treated like 'off board artillery'. The human player would get some sort of area bombardment during the game. High-flying aircraft bombers would work the same way. It wouldn't be unbalancing, just an option the human player could pay points for. You could have scenarios involving airships, too, I suppose.
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Post by boxholder on Sept 30, 2017 12:15:17 GMT
Mr Washburn:
An excellent way to handle the Zepps and also to avoid the need for an entire air-to-air combat sub-game.
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Post by scarapis on Sept 30, 2017 13:36:18 GMT
I think that in any game of All Quiet, the zeppelin would be treated like 'off board artillery'. The human player would get some sort of area bombardment during the game. High-flying aircraft bombers would work the same way. It wouldn't be unbalancing, just an option the human player could pay points for. You could have scenarios involving airships, too, I suppose. Problem is they already had plans for the game to introduce fighters (a fancy new bi-plane) and lets face it, Martians can launch rockets across the vastness of space, i'm pretty sure they can come up with their own flyers it is just a matter of finding the resources and materials needed to do so and with no serious aerial engagement by us it has not been a high priority for them. |
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