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Post by loyalist on Feb 11, 2016 16:10:39 GMT
I've just bought a batch of models from a KS supporter and found some variation between the KS and retail models.
I posted before about the poor quality of the retail armoured flivver resin cargo compartments. To my surprise the KS lot included a pair of flivvers with cast metal versions of the cargo compartment. Though they are heavier than the resin they are better cast except for a 'step' too deep to file off half way up the rear doors. Nevertheless I prefer them to the resin version. Why AD switched to resin, which required labour to sand the bottom (and it was the sanding that ruined 2 of the 3 resin cargo compartments I received), is unknown.
The MK IV monitor from the KS has the sponsons molded on, versus separate sponsons in the retail kits. The molding process captured small lumps of excess glue and gaps in the joints from the sponsons being glued to the hull for the mold master. I prefer the retail version because the sponsons can be left off if desired.
The third model variant was the Grenadier tripod. Both the retail versions I bought had two identical legs and one much sturdier one, which I assume was supposed to be a bracing rear leg for firing. I mistakenly posted yesterday that the KS version had 3 identical legs, after glancing at the parts in the bag but the legs were identical to those in the retail versions. What is different is that the launchers are resin, not metal. I've heard that some people got resin launchers in the retail kits and others like me got metal launchers.
To me it doesn't make much business sense to develop separate moulds and processes to make the same model parts in both resin and metal.
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Post by Quendil on Feb 11, 2016 16:47:13 GMT
There QC really did suck
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Post by joker on Feb 11, 2016 17:02:53 GMT
Copy the Grenadier variations!
KS Grenadier with the same legs and blister Grenadier with an different leg...
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Post by madmorgan on Feb 11, 2016 17:31:26 GMT
Its a shame we have to go through all this. Oh for a vendor doing good Tripods and other figures. The Old Glory ZiS-5 and ZiS-6 stand in trucks look better and better.
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Post by loyalist on Feb 11, 2016 20:43:16 GMT
Are the Zis trucks comparable in size to the 18mm flivvers?
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Post by madmorgan on Feb 11, 2016 22:26:27 GMT
All of the True North Line, including the trucks, are 18mm scale. I understand that the Command Decision line is not, according to others reports. Also, the trucks in the Old Glory line, as all their figures, are 18mm. Check the WW1 armies, the USA has a Ford, the British have an AEC 3 ton and a Halford 3 ton as well as some nice wagons for all sorts of uses.
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Post by slave2gaming on Feb 12, 2016 0:13:18 GMT
Oh for a vendor doing good Tripods and other figures. I'm looking into this with some 3D designers over here. Wait and see what the future holds... |
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Post by boxholder on Feb 18, 2016 14:37:37 GMT
Just a short answer to loyalists question about why go to resin if you already have metal parts and molds?
Likely answer: An emergency procedure to overcome a metal production problem.
The manufacturing processes for metal and resin are distinctly different, as are the molds. They are not interchangeable. Metal parts are "centrifugally cast," using a circular hard rubber mold with special spin casting machine, along with the associated metal melting pots.
Resin is WAY simpler. You, yourself, can go to a craft store (HobbyLobby, JoAnn, Michaels, etc) or hobby shops and buy kits to do resin copies of an existing part. The mold is made from flexible room temp vulcanizing (RTV) silicone rubber. The "master" part is coated with wax or even PAM cooking spray and the RTV poured around it to create a flexible mold. (Some planning is needed to produce a two part mold for larger items.) Removing the master leaves a cavity that is filled with the two-part resin mix. The mold can be reused many times. Usually, excess cured resin must be trimmed or sanded off.
The flexible RTV mold is part of the problem with resin parts. Care must be exercised during the cure period. IF the mold is distorted, the part will be distorted, too. Seriously distorted resin parts are seldom salvageable. The cure process is irreversible chemistry. In contrast, metal parts can be salvaged by remelting.
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Post by scottwashburn on Feb 18, 2016 15:48:24 GMT
Ironically, the big problem that Ernie faced was getting the resin parts cast. He tried three different firms and none could give him the volume and quality he wanted so he ended up doing it himself.
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Post by boxholder on Feb 18, 2016 18:19:45 GMT
One can only assume that resin part suppliers that he contacted must have underestimated the difficulty in scaling up. By scale-up I mean to include large resin parts (which may distort molds from sheer weight or heat evolution) or scale-up of production volume (which may have caused movement of molds before the curing was completed. Or both.
The change to do-it-yourself was yet another diversion of effort for a business stretched too thin.
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Post by madmorgan on Feb 26, 2016 12:16:14 GMT
I'd like to chime in here about the lack of USA producers for Ernie's resin miniatures. I'm most surprised that Old Glory couldn't/didn't handle that part of the game. They did a fine job with the figures. If they weren't contracted its one thing - and that would be tragic. But, if they were one of the folks that let Ernie down on this, I've come to a little different opinion of them. To date, I've found them to be one of the most reliable and customer oriented companies in the USA. If they dropped the AQ ball on the resins, I'm dismayed - their resin ships are very good and they seem to have plenty of them at conventions. In any case, lets hope whoever picks up the game (fingers crossed) can resolve the volume/quality resin issue quickly and completely.
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Post by wisercj on Mar 2, 2016 5:49:04 GMT
The flexible RTV mold is part of the problem with resin parts. Care must be exercised during the cure period. IF the mold is distorted, the part will be distorted, too. Seriously distorted resin parts are seldom salvageable. The cure process is irreversible chemistry. In contrast, metal parts can be salvaged by remelting. Agree although distorted resin parts can be used as filler in larger molds. Also the RTV mold for resin casting is more fragile and prone to tearing with a much shorter life than the rubber molds for metal spin casting. madmorgan As for Old Glory, there are a number of reasons I could think of that they would not or could not pick up the AQMF line. Unless you have some inside knowledge, I would not be too hasty in slinging mud their way. As you mentioned they have a good reputation and are a steady contributor within an often fickle hobby. Ultimately it was Ernie's responsibility and, unfortunate as it may be, he is now paying the price. |
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Post by loyalist on Mar 2, 2016 9:35:35 GMT
Another variation:
Retail Defiant armoured cars - no crew in either box of 3 I bought, and none reported by other people in a previous thread. KS Defiant - nice crew figure reading map. Note that the crew figures for Imperial tanks and the Defiant are true 15mm scale, significantly smaller than the MK IV tank crew figure and identical in size to FoW WWII British tank crew.
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Post by madmorgan on Mar 2, 2016 11:25:50 GMT
Hmmm, guess it did sound like 'mud'. I only meant that Old Glory was such a proven company in the industry, that I would be 'dismayed' if they didn't keep up a bargin if they had struck one. I've the greatest respect for what Old Glory does and is doing and I'd didn't mean to be seeming harsh on my statement about the whole resin issue. I look forward to their future works in WW1 (theres a whole list of nifty stuff in the works) and hope to see them succeed in restarting their coastal artillery line as well. Forgive a mouthy old man his grumblings.
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Post by wisercj on Mar 2, 2016 13:22:11 GMT
madmorgan Understand that was not the intent. Although, I will have to say in my experience that Peanut Studios was much more efficient at getting retail orders (no comment about Kickstarter) delivered than Old Glory has been.
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