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Post by terrance on May 29, 2024 18:56:27 GMT
I just got the PDF of the Return of the Tripod rules. First look is they look nice. Lots of pictures to illustrate the rules, easily readable font. All new background fluff. The first invasion in 1904 now occurs in England, East Africa, Siberia, and Pennsylvania USA. I have only glanced at the second invasion fluff but it looks like there are invasions in the Sahara, Mexico with movement into the southwest US, and west Russia. The human rules only cover Germany, but there is a document on the Abby Normal site for US troops. I have not seen anything for British troops.
In the new rules most unit types are rebased. I will have to make a decision if I want to do that. At first glance it looks like infantry are most affected with the new bases being 30x50mm. The old bases are 20x100mm. The picture in the troop types section for German Line Infantry Platoon shows 10 bases with 30 figures. Looked at the original book and the Abby Normal PDF on US troops. The original rules call 3 infantry stands a squad. The Abby Normal PDF calls for a US platoon of 1 command stand and 3 squads. So that also comes out to 10 stands per platoon. No mention in the US troop PDF of a change in base size.
Crew served weapons are now on 30x50mm stands. Old version uses 40mm round bases. I probably won't rebase those. Cavalry is now on 50x50mm or 50mm round bases with 1 to 4 modes per base. The pictures show single drones on round bases and human infantry square bases with 3 models per base. Again, I probably will not rebase cav. Artillery is now "usually" on 50x60mm bases. That won't work with my heavy artillery, but I guess it does say "usually" so I guess the bigger bases are alright. Vehicles are still unbased.
The rules now have size categories, which affect line of sight and assaults.
That is as far as I have gotten so far. I'll share more if there is interest.
Terry
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Post by David N.Tanner 07011959 on May 30, 2024 15:10:28 GMT
Thanks Terry
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Post by terrance on May 31, 2024 14:11:31 GMT
Here is a little more on the new rules. The turn has three phases: Orders Phase, Activation Phase, and End Phase. In the Orders Phase you issue orders and roll for initiative. The orders have been expanded. They now include Rally, Double Time (double move), Pour it on (re-roll misses), and Max Effort (Allows a third action but costs two order tokens). Initiative has modifiers. For humans +1 for every tripod destroyed the last turn, and commanders may spend order tokens to increase initiative. Martians now have the ability to group 3 tripods in a "Tripod Trip-Link network", and get +1 for each of these networks.
In the activation phase the initiative winning player can choose to move first or second. The player activates a single unit then the other side activates a single unit. The players alternate activating until all units of both sides have activated. In the end phase the players check morale, resolve end of turn effects and check for victory.
During activation a unit gets 2 actions. Actions include moving, shooting, digging in (allow a defensive bonus), rally, and assault. A unit may not use the same action twice in an activation (except if using Maximum Effort orders). Movement is pretty much the same as for the old rules, as is shooting.
Assault has been completely redone. You move into contact as usual, then each assaulting element (stand) individually rolls its attack. Then the defending side does the same (assuming they survived the attack), except if the defender is fighting against multiple elements it only gets to attack one of them. After the activation any surviving elements remain in contact and continue to fight. When next activated units may continue to fight or attempt to move away. This is where the size characteristic comes into play. A unit of a larger size than all of the units on the other side may move away from the assault.
In the end phase morale is checked for units that have taken damage or have shock tokens. Shock tokens are placed when a unit takes loses in assault and probably some other circumstances I haven't figured out yet. The Rally action allows you to remove a shock token from a unit. The morale roll has positive modifiers for being within command range of a command unit and being in cover, and negative modifiers for elements lost and shock tokens on the unit.
Time to go back to reading. There are still rules for terrain, bombardment, tows, transports, and more.
Terry
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Post by terrance on Jun 1, 2024 15:43:08 GMT
Terrain is handled pretty much the same. There is a new terrain chart that includes a column for size category. This is used for line of sight. Line of sight is blocked if it passes through an element of same or larger size than the shooter or the target. I think the size column on the terrain table is intended for intervening terrain to determine if it blocks line of sight or just gives cover. It isn't actually stated in the rules that I can find. Otherwise the terrain table looks pretty familiar with terrain types, unit types, and a resulting Defensive and armor bonus and if the terrain is normal, difficult, or impassable for that type of unit.Artillery fire is similar to the old rules. However barrage points are used slightly differently. In the old rules barrage points affected the size of the template. Now a single temple size is used for all barrage strengths and the barrage strength is added to the D10 roll for each element under the template. I think I like this simpler system.
The next section in the rules is command. This is pretty similar to the old rules and I have already noted that there are additional orders available in the new rules. There is a 5 page section on special rules. These are the special rules that apply to specific units. In the old book they were appended to the unit description. Here they are all pulled together in a single section. Among things of note, Gass weapons now use a separate gas template. And the template stays on the table and affects units moving under it until a die roll causes it to disperse in the end phase. Gas Proof no longer makes the unit immune to gas attacks. It does reduce the power of the attack to 0. Rapid fire still adds that many more dice to the attack, but the unit may target multiple units as well. From the rules, "For example, a weapon with Rapid-Fire 2 fires twice and so rolls two dice. These shots can be at separate targets or the same target." It is not quite clear to me if you get 2 dice at two targets or only 1 die at each of two targets. Tesla shots are simplified. Now if the hit is successful it also rolls to his every element within 10" of the target. With Tow Cables tripods no longer are immobilized. Instead they get shock tokens. Tranporting infantry and towing artillery is pretty much the same.
Buildings are covered in a similar manner as the old rules. Under fortifications we now have barbed wire, tank traps and mine fields.
That covers the basic and advanced rules sections. A quick peek at the rest of the book shows there are significant changes to building armies. There are a couple of new tripod types and some of the old types are missing. Most non-infantry units now have their own damage tables. Damage to tripods no longer reduce armor but hits are applied to "structure points". After I actually read these sections I'll comment more.
Terry
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Post by Quendil on Jun 1, 2024 18:40:31 GMT
I will be interested to know what you think after playing a game.
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Post by terrance on Jun 8, 2024 20:41:37 GMT
Getting a game on the table is going slow. I am confused by the section on building an army. From Face Book it appears I am not alone. I want to use US troops for the humans and there is a PDF from Abby Normal that gives stats for US. I am wondering if that is a final version. Probably what is going to happen is we will throw some troops on the table and not worry about balance or adherence to the rules on designing armies. Give me 2 or 3 weeks and I’ll post what we find.
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Post by GarageBay9 on Jun 10, 2024 4:34:12 GMT
Getting a game on the table is going slow. I am confused by the section on building an army. From Face Book it appears I am not alone. I want to use US troops for the humans and there is a PDF from Abby Normal that gives stats for US. I am wondering if that is a final version. Probably what is going to happen is we will throw some troops on the table and not worry about balance or adherence to the rules on designing armies. Give me 2 or 3 weeks and I’ll post what we find. We've heard you guys that the way the army construction rules are written out isn't the clearest and we're working on that. We're actually holding on sending the rulebook to the printer for hardback copies until we get fixes done based on the community feedback, we're determined to get this right.
David is actively taking feedback and providing clarifications on our Facebook group and in its community chat - it's our main nexus right now. There's lots of good info being posted over there, going both ways, and we're definitely scribbling down notes from every question you guys ask and any issues you find.
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Post by GarageBay9 on Jun 13, 2024 4:07:44 GMT
While we work on the layout of the army construction rules in the rulebook, David has put together two 200pt armies as example forces. They're meant to be general, balanced armies with an even mix of main units and support units, and to illustrate the army construction mechanics.
For the Martians: #1 Raider Tri-link Network with an Assault Tripod Upgrade: 2x Raider Tripods, 1x Assault Tripod for 60 points #2 Raider Tri-link Network with all the Raiders upgraded to Grenadier and Scout Tripods: 2x Grenadier Tripods, 1x Scout Tripod for 60 points #3 Raider Tri-link Network with one Slaver Tripod Upgrade and drone support: 2x Raider Tripods, 1x Slaver Tripod, 3x Lobototon Units, 1x Drone Unit: 80 points
David's notes: for this force, the Slaver has 3x units of Lobototons and one of the Raiders has a Drone controller (Drone is your choice)
For the Germans: Command Formation: (14 Command Points) - Command Unit: 1x Field Commander Element, Command Staff Element, Command A7V
- Heavy Artillery Unit: 3x 21cm Morser Howitzers
- Recon Unit: 6x Imperial Lancers
Total: 90 points
#1 Line Infantry Formation: (Part of the base cost so the Command Points and cost is part of the Command Formation Cost)
- Line Infantry Unit #1: 3x Infantry Elements
- Line Infantry Unit #2: 3x Infantry Elements
- Line Infantry Unit #3: 3x Infantry Elements
- Artillery Unit: 3x 7.7cm Fk-17
Total: 17 points
#2 Line Infantry Formation (6 Command Points) - Command Unit: 1x Formation Commander Element, Command A7V
- Line Infantry Unit #1: 3x Infantry Elements, 2x Machinegun Teams
- Line Infantry Unit #2: 3x Infantry Elements, 2x Machinegun Teams
- Line Infantry Unit #3: 3x Infantry Elements, 2x Machinegun Teams
Total: 53 Points
Sturmpazerwagon Oberschlesien Formation: (2 Command Points) - 1x Command Oberschlesien tank
- 2x Oberschlesien Tanks
- 1x Extra Oberschlesien tank
- 1x Autokannone 18 TuF Upgrade
Total: 40 Points
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Post by David N.Tanner 07011959 on Jun 16, 2024 20:46:45 GMT
Getting a game on the table is going slow. I am confused by the section on building an army. From Face Book it appears I am not alone. I want to use US troops for the humans and there is a PDF from Abby Normal that gives stats for US. I am wondering if that is a final version. Probably what is going to happen is we will throw some troops on the table and not worry about balance or adherence to the rules on designing armies. Give me 2 or 3 weeks and I’ll post what we find. We've heard you guys that the way the army construction rules are written out isn't the clearest and we're working on that. We're actually holding on sending the rulebook to the printer for hardback copies until we get fixes done based on the community feedback, we're determined to get this right.
David is actively taking feedback and providing clarifications on our Facebook group and in its community chat - it's our main nexus right now. There's lots of good info being posted over there, going both ways, and we're definitely scribbling down notes from every question you guys ask and any issues you find.
As a dinosaur that won't use "The Book of Face", I appreciate any and all info you can give us over here.
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Post by terrance on Jun 22, 2024 15:54:35 GMT
Garagebay9, thanks for the info on building units. I thought I had had figured out the Martian process and this confirms it. I think a step-by-step example in the book like this would go a long way towards clearing the confusion. For our test game I will be using US forces. The presentation in the US Army PDF was pretty clear. I had to possibly cheat a bit to get the unit mix I was after. I wanted a tank company supported by an infantry platoon. I made it work but as I said it may not be entirely by the rules. Also, I'm glad to see you are monitoring this forum. This used to be "The Place" for info on activity about the game. I hope it will again become a hotspot for game info, especially as many on this forum say they do not follow FaceBook.
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Post by terrance on Jun 22, 2024 16:06:39 GMT
Our first "test" game of the new rules is scheduled for July 6. I will try to get some pics and post the progress of the game with comments from players.
My Martian force consists of two Tri-Link Networks giving a total of 4 link points. Network #1 has a Raider, Scout, and Grenadier (costing 2 link points) with 2 triads of drones for 80 points. Try-Link #2 has 2 Raiders and an Assault tripod (costing 2 link points) with heat ray, and a triad of drones for 75 points. A total of 155 points.
Building armies in the new rules is very different from the old rules and feels very restrictive, especially at first. The new Raider tripods, according to the fluff, are the most commonly seen tripods on the battlefield, and the need to spend link points to upgrade Raiders to larger tripods enforces that. To get a Dominator tripod on the table costs 5 link points, which means you must field at least 3 Tri-Link Networks. That will give you a dominator, 8 Raiders with the possibility of upgrading one of the Raiders to a Scout or Grenadier. This is going to take some getting used to!
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Post by David N.Tanner 07011959 on Jun 22, 2024 18:03:11 GMT
Tell us about the US force
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jmccarroll
Assault Tripod
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" The only good Martian, is a dead Martian "
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Post by jmccarroll on Jun 23, 2024 12:18:54 GMT
Or you could just play with the models you have.
There should be some limit to army building, but having to buy models you don't want smacks of Games Workshop.
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Post by GarageBay9 on Jun 25, 2024 7:03:31 GMT
Or you could just play with the models you have. There should be some limit to army building, but having to buy models you don't want smacks of Games Workshop. There's absolutely no requirement to use our models in order to play with our rules. In fact, we've been 100% adamant from the start that 1st Edition models aren't just welcomed on the table right next to 2nd Edition ones, they belong there. This game would not have still been around for us to re-launch it if it wasn't for the loyalty and dedication of the fans who kept the faith, and nobody is more aware of that, or appreciates it more, than those of us at Abby Normal. Your 1st Edition models are absolutely part of the game, full stop.It's taking us a little bit to dot all our i's and cross all our t's with the updated unit stats and faction rules for the US and UK forces, but they are coming and we have not forgotten those. We are also planning to overhaul the US forces in soon on our roadmap. Even then, 1st Edition models belong on the table. There's going to be some new units that don't have 1st Edition counterparts, but that's already the case with some of the Martian units as well.
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Post by GarageBay9 on Jun 25, 2024 7:13:45 GMT
To get a Dominator tripod on the table costs 5 link points, which means you must field at least 3 Tri-Link Networks. That will give you a dominator, 8 Raiders with the possibility of upgrading one of the Raiders to a Scout or Grenadier. This is going to take some getting used to!
Neat fact:
In all the playtesting games we've run - and we've run a LOT - no Dominator has fallen to Human forces. Withdrawn, yes, damaged yes, but not destroyed.
And it's not even as heavily armed as my original concept when I sculpted it either, that one had more missile launchers and dual heavy heat rays. ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png)
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