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Post by turno on Jan 18, 2016 12:56:26 GMT
In light of a post on Facebook showing a stat card for Team Yankee for an assault Tripod it got me thinking: Would it be possible to introduce Tripods to Flames of War - it should be a simple case of creating stat cards for the Martians and then the armies of WWII can unite against this common enemy. Watch this space while I try to work on the stats so far I'm thinking:
Assault Tripod
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| MV: 8" |
| Fearless | Veteran |
| Range | Front | Rear | Top/Belly | Equipment and Notes |
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| 20 | 10 | 5 |
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| ROF | AT | Firepower |
| Heat Ray
| 30" | 1 | 30 | 2+ | Bunker buster | | Heat Ray sweep | 15" | 1 - Template | 15 | 3+ |
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Post by boxholder on Jan 18, 2016 14:32:37 GMT
Or conversely, use the Flames of War WW-1 miniatures in the AQoMF ruleset. It may be an even simpler conversion because of the existing articles might be used for analogs.
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Post by madmorgan on Jan 18, 2016 15:24:28 GMT
The FoW 15mm WW1 are a valid set of miniatures for AQMF - requiring (like all 'true 15s') you to use only 15mm figures for the human forces (no AD/Old Glory 15s = 18mm). There are several other lines of 'true' 15mm that would expand this greatly (Peter Pig for one). Going the other way I'm not so sure about, but like the idea for those who already have FoW armies. Note that if you do manage the FoW stats for the Martians, it would be fun to consider a WW2 alternate AQ world! Go for it!
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Post by scottwashburn on Jan 18, 2016 17:53:06 GMT
Yes, I was thinking about a FoW cross-over when All Quiet first came out. Actually, there's no need to create new stats for the Martians at all. Just use them as they are--and they'll be very badly out-classed by the humans!  Which is perfectly okay, of course. Sherman tanks would chop up tripods pretty well and Tigers and Panthers just eat them for lunch. Take that you squishy monsters! |
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Post by madmorgan on Jan 18, 2016 18:13:48 GMT
Yepper, those WW2 aircraft really whack the heck out of tripods. BTW turno - if your top/bottom are so vulnerable won't the human airforces have a field day. One question for scott - I'm not sure how to "use them as they are" in regards to the human forces. I mean, won't you have to restat all of the WW2 human forces to get an AQMF setup vs the Martians. For example, the Tiger with its famous 88mm; what would be its stats? Cheers! |
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Post by scottwashburn on Jan 19, 2016 2:36:29 GMT
Well, yes, you'd have to give them a defense rating for hit purposes, but the armor stays as is. For the weapon's power, I'd Start with the "French 75" as your base line. It has an armor penetration of 8 and the US Army All Quiet field gun, which is basically the same weapon, has a power of 3+. So if we subtract 3 from 8 we get 5. This make 5 as our Zero rating. Take a FoW weapon's AP value, subtract 5 and that is it's power (with a minimum of 0). So yes, an 88/L71 has a power of 11. It shreds Martians like tissue paper--as it should.
Have fun!
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Post by madmorgan on Jan 19, 2016 4:52:58 GMT
Ahh okay, need to look at my copy of FoW rules to figure out the basics. Very interesting concept WW2 AQMF - a much different ball of wax.
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Post by turno on Jan 19, 2016 8:37:05 GMT
Yepper, those WW2 aircraft really whack the heck out of tripods. BTW turno - if your top/bottom are so vulnerable won't the human airforces have a field day. One question for scott - I'm not sure how to "use them as they are" in regards to the human forces. I mean, won't you have to restat all of the WW2 human forces to get an AQMF setup vs the Martians. For example, the Tiger with its famous 88mm; what would be its stats? Cheers! completely agree - it's a WiP, although with armour 20 it's going to be hard for most things to penetrate (superiour metal and all that) so having low top and bottom means at least infantry can have a go, that was my thought at least. Essentially the martians aren't going to bail out so if something does exceed the armour then it'll be destroyed - thinking of working on a table similar to AQMF for when they explode. |
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Post by madmorgan on Jan 19, 2016 10:34:04 GMT
Okay granted the Martians will be on the hard end of the stick when the prey that stings 'upgrades' to WW2. However, won't the Martians have 'upgraded' by then also. After all its supposed to be a game, not a turkey (Martian) shot. I realize that the humans have been a punching bag most of AQMF games. Makes for a good, consistent envolvement for the players (human underdogs vs cold Martian player). A lot of repressed human pride here lol.
I'd purpose that the Martian's developed a 'force field' similiar to ones seen in some of the movies (indeed the orginial I think). This would be a strong modulated field, only a few millimeters off the metal shell of the machine. Two game mechanics come to mind. One way would be to treat it with accumulated hits, giving it an 'armor' and a number of 'hits' before it fails, thus allowing shots to hit the machine. The second would be a seperate table to resolve all hits, based on their strength, as 'Assaults' that can cause different affects. These could include; flicking shield- allowing even or odd turn open windows to fire on the machine, partial lost of an area of the shield (front/rear/top-bottom) or a side area (front/left/right/rear), one turn strengthing due to increased modulation - a really strong hit generating faster modulation that adds to the shield!, non-movement due to fluctuations in shield, non-weapon fire out due to same, etc.
Needless to say, it has to be resolved that the Martian weapons can be fired out of the shield. Of the two, the later would probably be the most fun to devise and the former the easiest to incorporate & play. The advantage to the shields are that they incompass the entire machine, even helping against the human airforces. And of coarse in addition to the shield, the Martians would develope some form of AA by this time.
I guess the real question regarding WW2/AQMF is when do the Martians land (WW1 and still here or WW2) and has WW2 started before that landing. In some ways, a landing in the mess of WW2, at least early war, would be to the Martians advantage and present some interesting three-sided battles (say Spanish Civil War, with a few Scouts and drones thrown in !). In fact, having the Martians already present or landing in the 1920s to take part in the various preWW2 conflicts (China, Spain for example) would allow a more gradual build up of human tech and all those wonderfull WW2 models we have. And the treatment of the drones becomes very important - the first game system would be preferred with 'low' hit values for them. Thoughts & comments???
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Post by boxholder on Jan 20, 2016 15:05:44 GMT
If you want some help envisioning a WW-2 Martian incursion, I would refer you to Harry Turtledove's book IN THE BALANCE. The plot revolves around an alien invasion fleet that arrives in the midst of WW-2. The advanced alien tech faces large human forces that are at the 1940 tech level. But also, multiple competing human factions are present (US-British, Nazi, Soviet, Japan, China) with disparate objectives forced into shifting alliances to face the external threat.
Good idea food.
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Post by phgamer on Jan 20, 2016 18:13:13 GMT
Harry Turtledove's book IN THE BALANCE. The first series was great. A lot of cameos of historical figures. The Aliens arrive with forces analogous to Earth 2000 technology, and were expecting to fight Knights and Longbows. A rude surprise there. Even though their tech is superior in every way, they were not quite untouchable. A good read. |
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Post by terrance on Jan 20, 2016 20:10:33 GMT
If you want some help envisioning a WW-2 Martian incursion, I would refer you to Harry Turtledove's book IN THE BALANCE. The plot revolves around an alien invasion fleet that arrives in the midst of WW-2. The advanced alien tech faces large human forces that are at the 1940 tech level. But also, multiple competing human factions are present (US-British, Nazi, Soviet, Japan, China) with disparate objectives forced into shifting alliances to face the external threat. Good idea food. Yes. I was thinking the same thing but Boxholder beat me to it. I once did a series of platoon level games based on this universe using the StarGrunt II rules. Had great fun. This is setting me thinking. Great! All I need is another game project. |
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Post by madmorgan on Jan 20, 2016 22:23:50 GMT
LOL, yep I've read all of Turtledoves various alternative history books. I think I like the civil war ones more though. Stargrunt is still one of my 'fun' set of rules for way back. There's even a manufactor out there making figures for it still.
Besides the Turtledove tie-in, what about the systems I've purposed for the Martians and also the timeline - prelanding or continued timeline from WW1 IRL?? Frankly, I think the continued timeline would be better as you could explore the gradual increase in human tech and weapon systems. Post WW1 machines were very much different from the 1944 beasts! Let me hear what you think!
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Post by terrance on Jan 21, 2016 18:23:29 GMT
Madmorgan, I like the idea of the continued timeline. It opens up a lot of possibilities. How would you handle the much greater dependence of WWII equipment on petroleum? Recall that the reason the current game uses steam tanks is the oil producing areas of the US are occupied by the Martians.
As far as Martian upgrades, we have seen the Veteran Tripod so clearly the Martians are capable of thinking about new and better equipment to face the humans. I like the force field idea. It is a logical progression for the Martians. Not certain the best way to handle the damage effect on the shield. Like you say, the more comprehensive version would be more fun. One additional thought, what if electrical discharge weapons (Tesla gun for example)could short out the force field (at least for a time) and then the Tripod must depend on physical armor for defense. As a follow-up I can then see the humans developing artillery shells that are basically big electrical batteries intended to overload the force field.
Another though is the force fields from The Mote in God's Eye that expand until they overload. The problem here would be that when those fields collapsed they destroyed the ship. From your description of flickering fields I suspect this has already occurred to you.
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Post by madmorgan on Jan 21, 2016 18:41:31 GMT
Thank you for the kind words. I think I would treat Tesla weapons as they are currently. They only short the field long enough for their bolt to get through; you'd get to fire a Tesla weapon at the tripods basic armor AQ ratings (11, 10, whatever) and it jumps just as in the original rules. Yes, I too thought of The Mote... effect (I actually have the board game based on that btw), but don't want to inject that much of a problem into the game - the Martians will have enough problems dealing with WW2 weapons and the prey that stings. I have been looking at a new Martian weapon - Brown Gas, with the effect that it instantly corrodes petrol into useless goo. The battle field effect is that tanks are stopped for the rest of the game and aircraft plummet from the sky. Rapid firing AA canister will be part of the new defense system, maybe even some drone unit with AA firing brown gas canisters. Also, tripod could have a 'brown gas' generator that fits on the upper hull, emitting bellowing clouds of the stuff (think Independence Day 'clouds' around the ships). Dominators could have AA missles that lock onto aircraft (heatseeking) and blow them away. Maybe a new type of tripod with 'targeter' tech designed as an AA missle launcher platform. To add excitement, initiative determines who gets their shield back up first or if the target plane can get off some bursts/rockets/bombs through the temporary gap in the shield. I could see some sort of ECM developement by humanity to 'short' the field, like a HEAT round, with the ECM nose allowing the bulk of the shell through the field. As of right now, I'm overwhelmed by the WW2 thoughts with a 102 fever so perhaps I best close with like your thoughts and sharing alot!
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Which is perfectly okay, of course. Sherman tanks would chop up tripods pretty well and Tigers and Panthers just eat them for lunch. Take that you squishy monsters!
