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Post by hardlec on Aug 12, 2016 23:59:05 GMT
If my Battleship stands a mile from the beach, do the Martians have any way to get the black dust to me? The Grenadier does not have that kind of range.The Martians have no fliers and no "beyond the horizon" artillery. Clever as they are it will take quite a while, several years, to develop the basic ballistic data to create artillery that can hit anything smaller than a city. To say nothing about building a gun, which is an arcane art all to itself. It will take several tons of dust to cover a battleship.
A ship can move. A ship moving at 10 knots into a five knot wind has a 15 knot wind blowing all the black dust off the ship. While very effective against stationary targets, like gun emplacements, Black dust has a problem against ships that can move away, literally right out from under the dust cloud.
Land vehicles are a different matter. They are considerably slower, and require much less dust to affect them. Of course, the poor troopers are going to suffer. The grenadier is just the thing to engage ground targets, but not at all up to attacking ships.
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Post by scottwashburn on Aug 13, 2016 0:45:54 GMT
Hardlec,
I agree completely with what you say in regards to the weapons the Martians have in the game. The game deliberately scaled down the black dust weapons which H.G. Wells described in his book. THOSE weapons were some sort of rocket launcher which could send a dust cannister for a number of miles and which when it burst could cover many square MILES with the black dust. Such a weapon could take out a whole task force if they didn't have protective measures.
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Post by madmorgan on Aug 13, 2016 11:29:34 GMT
Excellent point on both gentlemen. I've scrapped the idea of the 'rocket' or 'missile' tripod. Just too powerful for game balance on tabletop and definitely not accurate enough for ranged ship shots. Even more so with the obvious things mentioned above. TY. I needed to be reined in on this one.
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Post by hardlec on Aug 13, 2016 17:19:43 GMT
There is usually a counter to any weapon. If the Martians could project black dust against ships effectively, there will be defensive measures on the ships. Some crew can wear gas masks. Some compartments can be pressurized. The dust that comes down the stack will be incinerated in the firebox, and possibly directing the exhaust "smoke" might be a counter measure as well.
I think the Martians might simply avoid the coastal areas as they have no love for water anyway.
There were plans for "battleships" to serve in the great lakes. They were similar to pre-dreadnaught battleships, small enough to use the locks, big enough to carry two turrets with two 12-inch guns and six smaller guns in casemates. They were never built, primarily because there were no threats at that time. Teddy would surely have some built, and they would be useful against Martians. Again, I think the Martians could afford to ignore them by staying away from the beaches.
The most vulnerable part of seaborne bombardment would be for the martians to locate and eliminate the observers. That might make for an interesting scenario.
Smaller, riverine vessels are another matter. They would have a vulnerability to gas or dust attacks, although boats would be less vulnerable than tanks. They could carry weapons big enough to destroy Martians. The Martians will soon find they can't simply concede the areas close to rivers. One solution would be to create a second generation Grenadier, one with the range to send their concussion grenades across a major river. There are already riverine craft for human martial efforts.
Of course, there is always the possibility of the Martians creating lobototron walrus.
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Post by madmorgan on Aug 15, 2016 12:23:21 GMT
To go with the lobototon crocs and alligators. Interesting, I prefer your spelling of the lobototrons over the lobototons - probably was an overlooked typo in the setting of the rule book.
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Post by hardlec on Aug 15, 2016 20:19:29 GMT
How About for the Martians:
Besieger: looks like a reaper but has no assault tentacles, a pair of launchers like a grenadiers but twice the size. Drone controller Medium heat ray Ordinance Launch System: As the grenadiers, range 30 inches, Barrage 4 or gas attack or dust attack, inaccurate.
The Besieger is usually grouped with a Reaper and a Scout. This triad is intended to attack and destroy human fortifications. With two drone controllers, the type and number of drones under control is adjusted to suit the mission.
Scotts boats are a good start. A larger, dedicated "gunboat" is needed.
One strategy that the humans might use is to attack the Martians using rivers instead of railroads. The humans can strike into Martian territory and/or establish and maintain fortified villages.
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Post by boxholder on Aug 15, 2016 22:10:10 GMT
A two step process to address Martian black smoke might not be past the state of the art in this time frame, especially for ships. An air intake duct that used steam to react the smoke down to particulates followed by a water spray mist section to cool the air and shoot the particulates out of suspension. This uses the two abundant resources for a ship: steam and water.
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Post by hardlec on Aug 16, 2016 2:13:14 GMT
A steam filter might be very useful. Steam will adhere to black dust particles and precipitate them out of the air. If heat affects black dust, steam can be compressed to heat it as well as heated directly. Water does not compress, but steam can. If cold affects black dust, steam cools as it expands. Water vapor can be used to cool liquid water to ice. Steam torpedoes had severe problems with freezing/icing. A steam filter would be bulky, but space is not that much of an issue. Good idea, boxholder.
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Post by madmorgan on Aug 16, 2016 13:17:26 GMT
How About for the Martians: Besieger: looks like a reaper but has no assault tentacles, a pair of launchers like a grenadiers but twice the size. Drone controller Medium heat ray Ordinance Launch System: As the grenadiers, range 30 inches, Barrage 4 or gas attack or dust attack, inaccurate. The Besieger is usually grouped with a Reaper and a Scout. This triad is intended to attack and destroy human fortifications. With two drone controllers, the type and number of drones under control is adjusted to suit the mission. Scotts boats are a good start. A larger, dedicated "gunboat" is needed. One strategy that the humans might use is to attack the Martians using rivers instead of railroads. The humans can strike into Martian territory and/or establish and maintain fortified villages. Good idea on the tripod! I like it and will try to work up complete stats for it. As I've done with a lot of the ACW steamboats/gunboats and TO&E/OOBs for river operations, the use of the river highways is often the road to success for the human forces in the Americas.
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Post by madmorgan on Aug 16, 2016 13:35:55 GMT
I'll add this to the units available to Martians. Besieger 1 element = 1 unit@ 250 Speed 4" Defense 6 Armor 10 Special: Controller; Ordinance Launch System Medium Heat Ray Range 20"/10" +3/+2 Power Rate of fire 1 Special: Focused/Sweep (2)Heavy Launchers Range 30" +2 Power/+1 Power Barrage 4 / Barrage 2 Special: Shock/Black Dust or Green Gas; Inaccurate. Comments: no tentacles, but otherwise resembles a Reaper with launchers like a Grenadier with twice the size. The Besieger is usually grouped with a Reaper and a Scout with targeter. This triad is intended to attack and destroy human fortifications. With two drone controllers (Reaper & Besieger), the type an number of drones under control is adjusted to suit the mission. Idea and design by hardlec. I'd add the suggestion that at least one squad of Snipers be attached to the Besieger and maybe a squad of Shocker drones and Scorpion drones (the first for more short range firepower within 20" and the other for the breakthrough and countering tanks) which will allow you to suppress some artillery once in range (Snipers really good for this). Great idea hardlec!
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Post by madmorgan on Aug 16, 2016 13:36:36 GMT
farkongnome - add the above to your list of 'optional' or new tripods. Modeling the Besieger is not that hard. Just substitute two SAM launchers from 15 mm or 28 mm lines to get the right affect for the launchers. There are any number of vendors with various SAM or boxy type launchers. Pin to the Grenadier by your preferred method and thus - the Besieger. Thank you hardlec for presenting a really interesting and what I term 2nd Generation Tripod - this monster will definitely have a major impact on any fortress city or town attack. Lets not even consider its use against the standard trench line; I shudder to think what the new Martian support cell looks like. Here's an example: Support Cell 1911 - (Platoon) 3 x (2) Grenadier Tripods @200, (1) Scout with targeter Tripod @155 = 355 each/3 units x 3 = 1065/9 units Support Cell 1916 - (2) Besieger @500, (2) Scouts with targeter Tripods @310 (2) Reaper Tripods @300 = 1110/6 units (2) Shock Drone Squads @120; (2) Scorpion Drone Squads @200; (2) Sniper Drone Squads @150 = 470/6 units Total Support Cell 1916 - 1580 points in 12 units = BP 6 [7 order tokens] At 50% = 790 Break Point This will definitely work well in any assault against all forms of human fortifications (include Fortress City!). Combine with your Aggression and Slaver Cell of choice and take it on for anywhere from 2500 to 3000 points. The addition of the Besieger will make it hell for all your forces that come under its 30" shadow and the addition of the Shockers make for a huge number of attacks within 20". This kind of thing needs the human player(s) to focus artillery on the Support Cell, as once it starts getting into range, you're probably toast (dust or otherwise). I kinda wonder about the Barrage 4 for each launcher - it might be hardlec meant Barrage 2 per launcher for a total of 4, but I suspect its what it reads. That said, a potent barrage of 8 means almost anything it can hit is dead. That of coarse include walls and trenches. The human players really only option is to have some naval support as the only weakness of the Besieger is its 'short' range. The 20" to 30" range zone has truly become deadly. With long range or even river naval support, you have a chance to kill those monsters before they can have an effect on the battle. Don't over look some airplane attacks as well, anything you can do to kill them before they close! I'll do an OOB later for the above battle. Hope you like the new tripod - I do, even with my bias towards humanity.
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Post by hardlec on Aug 16, 2016 19:40:42 GMT
The besieger will also be used against riverine gunboats.
I see a lot of potential for scenarios where the Martians are attacking fortifications.
Martian Black Dust Missiles with V2 range are beyond the scope of the game. Really, so to are ocean going ships.
Now: in light of that and other of Scott's scale comments, I could envision a game with battalion to division sized units that would welcome some of the tasty ideas we've seen, including airships.
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Post by madmorgan on Aug 17, 2016 13:13:13 GMT
See my new series of OOB posts: Attack!... and Defend!... for examples
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