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Post by hardlec on Sept 1, 2017 18:23:47 GMT
As the Martians invade the midwest of the US, they will need to deal with the many rivers in that area.
There is already a very nice gunboat available, and there are plenty of paddle-wheel steamers availible as models
Old style river ironclads from the ACW will be very scarce. It will be much more prudent to scrap these ships rather than spend major amounts of money to maintain them, and the mid-19th century muzzle loaders will be obsolete and possibly ineffective against Martian tripods. It will not be much of a problem for Americans to build unique riverine fighting ships.
My personal idea is for the US to build ships that resemble the old Monitor: a single turret with two guns, a funnel, and a "Barrage Balloon" attached by a cable. In a basket under the balloon is an observer who reports to the ship with a field phone. If the Martians get too close, the balloon is cut loose and the observer does what he can to escape.
I favor a single heavy turret with one of two heavy guns rather than the casemate style with several guns of smaller caliber, but I'm sure there is lots to talk about here.
The Midwest of the US is going to be very unpleasant for the Martians. Teddy will see to that.
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Post by scottwashburn on Sept 1, 2017 18:42:02 GMT
In my latest book you will get a detailed look at that sort of riverine warfare!
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Post by boxholder on Sept 1, 2017 20:14:02 GMT
Well, history and the Navies certainly voted for the fewer turrets with larger guns as the way to go.
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Post by scottwashburn on Sept 1, 2017 21:11:39 GMT
But with more guns you get to roll more dice  |
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Post by hardlec on Sept 2, 2017 3:07:24 GMT
I like big guns. And I like lots of guns. And rockets. Lots and Lots of rockets.
My personal preference would be a "boat" with a dual turret of big guns and a very weak secondary battery. It is quite likely to see gunboats with a ton of smaller guns. Both types have advantages.
In WWII there were heavy cruisers and light cruisers. Both ship types had about the same displacement and there were many cases where light cruisers had a larger displacement than heavy cruisers.
A heavy cruisers had 8 to 9 8-inch guns. A light cruisers had up to 15 6-inch guns. A light cruiser could smother its target. A heavy cruiser could smash its target.
I like "pocket battleships" which were basically cruisers with battleship guns.
There will be all types of gunboats.
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Post by madmorgan on Sept 22, 2017 9:53:39 GMT
Well, I took a slightly different tac with my Ships TO&Es, but, there's no reason that a 'Merrimack'(sp) style ship couldn't be mounting 'modern' weapons and the plans for all those various vehicles would be quick for production vs a whole new, untested ship. I also note that Old Glory has an extensive line of 15mm resin ships for close-in representations of ships & boats and GHQ makes a great line of WW1 ships of all many nations. Additionally, there's Throughbred's excellent line and Old Glorys 1/600 line. With so many options to choose from, I don't see the need to do overly much to 'update'. Using my ships data, you can easily include just about any vessel you'd like into a scenario. With the Old Glory Army card (40% off), these all come in at a reasonable price. I've also listed a 'modern' ship made up around based on the Ironclad - a 1/350 soviet armored boat by Zvezda. With all this available, it seems your needs are covered pretty well. See my Ships listings and rules. |
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Post by boxholder on Sept 25, 2017 12:09:10 GMT
Well, a 15 inch Dahlgren or 12 inch Columbiad will still pack a real punch, although the rate of fire will suck compared to breechloader.
The simple kinetic energy from such large projectiles might knock down a tripod or damage systems simply from the impact.
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Post by hardlec on Sept 26, 2017 3:24:36 GMT
The river ironclads of the ACW were rapidly scrapped. The designs would still apply.
A "monitor" style river gunboat with a pair of ATgs would be useful, especially paired with a 12-inch mortar in one of Scott's steam barges.
The "Virginia" style casement boats would work as well. I'd eschew paddlewheels, however.
Scott's gunboat is a great model. I'd suggest you make a cheap copy and do a practice build first.
What about Airboats armed with an HMG?
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Post by boxholder on Sept 27, 2017 12:59:09 GMT
Airboats would not be a big technical leap. AIrcraft engine would not be required since it won't fly and weight is not an overwhelming issue. Airscrew propellor is a known technology. Shallow draft boat hulls also well known tech.
No technical reason these could not be built. Possibly as patrol or fast raiders along waterways.
Tactically though, the Martians will tend to avoid swampy areas and shallow water due to experience with their legs sinking into the mire.
I concur that paddlewheelers are not a good choice. Paddlewheels are just too big and vulnerable...unless nothing else is available.
The casemate ship can be considered for the same reason that "assault guns" evolved from tanks. They permitted a much larger caliber weapon to be mounted than a turret on a given size tank could accomodate. You gave up all-around fire for much greater hitting power. Likely less an issue for a ship than a tank. The bonus was also that thicker armor could be mounted because the turret weight was deleted.
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Post by hardlec on Sept 28, 2017 16:35:13 GMT
Casement gunboats would probably be used. They make great gun platforms. They might carry either direct fire weapons like ATgs or large caliber howitzers for indirect fire. The direct fire boats will be tasked with protecting the indirect fire armed boats while they withdraw. I need to try for a redesign of a casemate gunboat, but I can't seem to get the angles right.
Airboats seem to have a lot of potential. Their very low drafts make them useful for much more than swampy areas. Some folks use them as duck blinds: tie them up in weedy areas before duck season then use a canoe to go back and forth.
I could see, and would buy, a set of 3 airboats with a "pilot" and a HMG with gunner.
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Post by madmorgan on Oct 3, 2017 11:02:47 GMT
I did stats and airboats in my Nemo article - basically they were fast support boats and could be launched from river or close shoreline. I'll dig up the reference for you all in a few.
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Post by madmorgan on Oct 3, 2017 11:16:42 GMT
Hmmm didn't actually stat out any airboats - but, Black Hat has two excellent models to work with - EMV004 two man flyer and EMV005 one man flyer. Together with the inexpensive 'parts pack' EMV008 @ 3 pounds, you could put together airboats or swampbuggies. The two man runs 7 pounds, the one man less. Sorry, I couldn't find the button on BMs site for conversion to $.
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