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Post by madmorgan on Jan 5, 2016 1:38:28 GMT
phgamer, in his recent post of the battle to capture a downed tripod, mentioned an interesting tactic. Whilst playing standard rules (vs alternate phased moves or others from mike), he puts his tanks in line rather than spread out in line. This prevents a sweep attack from getting but one of the tanks!! Fantastic. So, how about others trying this and other alternate sequenced games. Lets see whats what with this.
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Post by hardlec on Apr 1, 2016 2:20:36 GMT
phgamer, in his recent post of the battle to capture a downed tripod, mentioned an interesting tactic. Whilst playing standard rules (vs alternate phased moves or others from mike), he puts his tanks in line rather than spread out in line. This prevents a sweep attack from getting but one of the tanks!! Fantastic. So, how about others trying this and other alternate sequenced games. Lets see whats what with this. I don't think it matters if the sweep goes front to back or right to left. |
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Post by madmorgan on Apr 1, 2016 10:26:16 GMT
Hmmm, in theory I agree hardlec, but the template is definately a 'right to left' setup - no indication it was meant to got 'front to back'. Is this a possible rule change in the making - "A target of a sweep attack is considered be effected either by the standard template placement or by placing the template front to back against a line of targets." ?? What do you think?
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Post by scottwashburn on Apr 1, 2016 11:45:11 GMT
Look at it from the point of view of the Martian. It's got a heat ray in its 'hand'. How can it move the ray? Imagine yourself with a garden hose; what sort of pattern can you make with the spray? Side to side? Front to back? It seems to me that a Martian could aim the heat ray at the front of a column of tanks and then just raise the ray and sweep the beam from the front of the column to the rear, catching several tanks. I'd suggest that the template can be put down however the Martian player wants as long as the farthest part of the template doesn't exceed the range of the weapon.
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Post by boxholder on Apr 1, 2016 13:15:57 GMT
The water hose analogy would seem to be pretty apt. But then, you will need to add a linear heat ray template with its length equal to the arc length of the curved template and width equal to that of the curved template. Otherwise, the heat ray has unlimited coverage and effectiveness out to its maximum range.
The use of the sweep template may have been a means to limit the effectiveness somewhat, possibly by asserting that it can only cover a certain area in the (abstract) time unit of the turn or it can dwell on a point target.
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Post by scottwashburn on Apr 1, 2016 14:10:20 GMT
Oh, I agree with that. The limited template deliberately restricts the maximum area that can be covered in a single shot and that's a good thing. I'm not suggesting the template should be done away with, but rather that its orientation on the table could be anything the Martian player wants.
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Post by boxholder on Apr 1, 2016 16:46:09 GMT
OK. That adds a bit of wrinkle because the template is curved and we are talking about a more linear sweep. Of course, this forces the Martian player to think carefully about how the curved sweep template is to be placed and arranged. There will probably be some "inefficiency" in trying to cover a more linear target, but the simplicity of not having another piece of stuff to keep up with might outweigh this.
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Post by madmorgan on Apr 1, 2016 18:37:36 GMT
I agreed with both of you. Lay the template touching the firing tripod and place the 'sweep' as an arc over the targets till the other end point touches down. There you go! No lines of tanks need apply! lol
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Post by hardlec on Apr 2, 2016 15:43:28 GMT
Attacking in a line ahead is a good way to get your Tee crossed.
The curved template is just fine for the limits on raising and lowering the heat Ray mount.
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Post by mikedski on Apr 2, 2016 20:19:57 GMT
So I guess there is no more "countersweep tactic"?  |
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Post by boxholder on Apr 2, 2016 20:49:20 GMT
Attacking in a "V"formation, with the center pointed at the tripod, might work. Spaced out, it will be difficult for the curved template to cover more than a couple of the tanks. Also, the V will be shaped wrong for good coverage by the template. An echelon formation might work.
However, this tactic is contingent on a requirement that the template be placed with concave side toward the tripod.
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Post by hardlec on Apr 2, 2016 22:00:52 GMT
When I played Flames of War I would move a model, place an artillery template on it, then move the next model in the unit to make sure it was not possible to get two models under the template.
Dispersion is one way to defeat the sweep. One of the reasons the minimum distance for models in a unit is such a big deal.
The Vee formation is a a good tactic against the sweep. so is a staggered line if you have more that 3 models in a unit.
Of course, the easiest ways to avoid the sweep is to stay out of range or fight in the smoke or fog or rain ....
Or, just destroy the Tripods with Artillery. (easier said than done, I know.)
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Post by wisercj on Apr 15, 2016 5:30:17 GMT
Look at it from the point of view of the Martian. It's got a heat ray in its 'hand'. How can it move the ray? Imagine yourself with a garden hose; what sort of pattern can you make with the spray? Side to side? Front to back? It seems to me that a Martian could aim the heat ray at the front of a column of tanks and then just raise the ray and sweep the beam from the front of the column to the rear, catching several tanks. I'd suggest that the template can be put down however the Martian player wants as long as the farthest part of the template doesn't exceed the range of the weapon. Ah but do they have garden hoses on Mars? The rules clearly state that the template has to be in an arc facing away from the shooter as shown in the diagram on page 62. As a human player I want the Martian sweep to be restricted. As a martian player I want to have more flexibility on the employment of the heat ray. Decisions, decisions, ... |
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Post by wisercj on Apr 15, 2016 5:48:19 GMT
When I played Flames of War I would move a model, place an artillery template on it, then move the next model in the unit to make sure it was not possible to get two models under the template. There you go playing to the rules. Convenient that with the FoW barrage template the impact size of a battery of 4 75mm field guns throwing 15 lbs shells is the same as a battery of 6 155mm howitzers throwing 100 lbs projectiles with less than half the rate of fire but double the bursting radius. I'm trying to imagine training a group of soldiers by carrying a big template around on training exercises. Even with well trained soldiers there is a tendency to bunch up. It is really based on terrain. |
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Post by madmorgan on Apr 15, 2016 10:49:36 GMT
Yes, concentrate for firepower or disperse for protection. Always a matter of tactices. Good visual cj!
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