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Post by scottwashburn on Sept 27, 2016 13:31:28 GMT
Well, a B-25 is vastly more advanced than anything we'll see in All Quiet. And the 8 forward firing MGs is exactly the sort of thing I want to avoid in our game. It would completely wreck play balance. That's another reason I made the range of the MGs only 15", I don't want planes to be able to make an attack and then move out of range in their second move. But I agree, play-testing is needed. Oh, and as far as modern military blimps, didn't we see one of those escape and crash in Amish country here in Pennsylvania not long ago?
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Post by loyalist on Sept 27, 2016 19:56:29 GMT
Well, a B-25 is vastly more advanced than anything we'll see in All Quiet. And the 8 forward firing MGs is exactly the sort of thing I want to avoid in our game. It would completely wreck play balance. That's another reason I made the range of the MGs only 15", I don't want planes to be able to make an attack and then move out of range in their second move. But I agree, play-testing is needed. Oh, and as far as modern military blimps, didn't we see one of those escape and crash in Amish country here in Pennsylvania not long ago? Scott, I fully agree with your suggestions about limited offensive capability for planes. If I remember correctly, in your first book of the new series the Martians have somewhat limited AA range/capability themselves. Though there's no accurate ground scale in the game I think that if planes want to attack Martian elements they have to come within retaliatory range. Some arbitrary minimum safe altitude needs to be set for observation planes, which would naturally stay above the known range of Martian heat rays or other weapons. I plan to use planes for scouting and maybe artillery direction, but given the technology of the time I don't think plane spotting should benefit long range guns more than a +1 to hit.
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Post by madmorgan on Sept 28, 2016 11:48:09 GMT
hardlec, I don't think a terrorist element going to let folks know that they have enough helium to fill one or that they will do it in such a way that its easily in view initially by folks. A second chilling thought is very small (drone sized) remote controlled versions. After all, you don't need much material to mess up an area. Scott - a few of the aircraft I looked up did have a forward arc'd 37mm - not enough firepower to do more than bother a tripod some, maybe Slavers/Grenadiers and the like (37mm = 1 pounder= about 1.457" or a 50 caliber equal (+2 Power in my list of mgs - the true HMG)
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Post by scottwashburn on Oct 16, 2016 1:19:33 GMT
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Post by madmorgan on Oct 17, 2016 18:34:15 GMT
Hmmm, but what about Hydrogen?? And divergent sourced helium - one here one there, across the nation even. Sorry, I've got a message out to the authorities and hope it is examined to the extent necessary. Ty.
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Post by hardlec on Oct 18, 2016 16:53:19 GMT
the Aircraft rules working is great news. I hope they become officially adopted. I will try to add The Wing to Skwyre.
Morgan: Hydrogen can be generated from water and a source of electricity. Raw hydrogen gas in the presence of pure oxygen can be a bit tricky to handle, and compressing it requires a little know-how. It would be easier just to buy it from welding suppliers.
I'm not concerned that terrorists could create a WMD of hydrogen without tipping off the DHS or NSA. You and I both know how well the NSA and DHS can protect us ordinary citizens, privacy and all.
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Post by boxholder on Oct 18, 2016 17:22:47 GMT
The problem with helium is that the geological formations holding large enough quantities to be meaningful are pretty limited. The biggest are in the US western Kansas and Oklahoma region and began to be exploited about 1903, a region that the Martians have largely overrun already in the AQMF storyline. The US essentially had a righteous lock on helium for decades. That forced Germany and others to use hydrogen for their lift gas. Only recently have new deposits been located globally and are being brought to production.
Brother hardlec understates the problems with hydrogen. It doesn't require pure oxygen to be a hazard, being explosive in air at any concentration from about 6% to 94%. It is also sneaky stuff. Regular gaskets and seals (rubber and plastic) will not contain it. It permeates right on through. It also has an ability to leak through pinholes or porosities in the metal components and welds faster than other gases.
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Post by madmorgan on Oct 18, 2016 17:46:27 GMT
Good discussion all - okay here is a question for you. Based on your excellent description of the properties of hydrogen, is there any basis for the Armored/Assault Infantry to be immune to gas, as the Martians probably used something as 'sneak'. More important for game play - can the viral gas penetrate Armored/Assault infantry suits. Is something (IRL) sealed enough to prevent gas to penetrate able to prevent viral agents from penetrating?? To this end, do the Armored/Assault suits have 'Immune' to the Viral delivery system of the Martians?? [my first read of all this says "Yes"]
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Post by madmorgan on Oct 18, 2016 17:49:54 GMT
On a different topic - I like scotts aircraft rules fine. It gives individual aircraft a more powerful stance in the game. I would ask Scott to check out my original airplane rules, for the stats only, and try one of my aircraft as well in a game (a DH-2 or other two-seater recon type). I'm curious to see if those stats are useful for playing other planes in the game. A second thought is if Scott plans to 'paper terrain' more aircraft from the period?? Won't that be cool!
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Post by terrance on Oct 18, 2016 19:39:18 GMT
Good discussion all - okay here is a question for you. Based on your excellent description of the properties of hydrogen, is there any basis for the Armored/Assault Infantry to be immune to gas, as the Martians probably used something as 'sneak'. More important for game play - can the viral gas penetrate Armored/Assault infantry suits. Is something (IRL) sealed enough to prevent gas to penetrate able to prevent viral agents from penetrating?? To this end, do the Armored/Assault suits have 'Immune' to the Viral delivery system of the Martians?? [my first read of all this says "Yes"] As a microbiologist I'll take a crack at the question of viruses. Since viruses are several tens of thousands times larger than the hydrogen atom if the suit is tight enough to keep out the gas it will keep out the virus. Of course having said that there is the question of if the rager virus is actually a virus as it acts far too quickly. Viruses get into cells and hijack the cell's metabolism and reproductive abilities to damage the host and spread itself. This takes hours at least and for most viruses days. So the time from exposure to turning into ragers is more like exposure to a chemical than a virus. Secondly the question of suits, etc. being permeable to a gas can be examined a little more closely. The key question is how quickly can the gas pass through and what is the toxic level needed to have an effect. So the suits could be safe for hours or a day or so, but if not decontaminated within, say, a week toxic levels could build up. But all this (both comments) may be just a little too real world for our game purposes.
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Post by hardlec on Oct 18, 2016 21:17:53 GMT
My point on hydrogen is not that it is safe. Quite the contrary. ?It is nearly as dangerous as gasolene. Handled properly it is very useful. Handled recklessly, it is very volatile. My point is that the Authorities are well able to prevent it being used as a WMD. Currently, it is illegal to use hydrogen for LTA craft over the US.
There are tons of paper models available for WWI and pre-WWI aircraft They are not as utilitarian as Scott's. I'd rather see "The Wing" become more stable and accepted in AQMF. If I covet anything, I covet a dirigible able to carry a Vic of 5, 4, or maybe 5 Wings. It'll never be on a game board as it would need to be about 4 feet long or longer, but I'd try to build one all the same. For "Dramatic" reasons, I'd prefer to see the flight deck on top of the dirigible, rather than the trapdoor system of the Akron and Macon.
Amarillo, Texas is the location of the US' strategic reserve of Helium. In AQMF terms, Amarillo is held by Lawrence of Arizona and there will probably be a major campaign to "relieve" Amarillo for the Helium and for many other reasons. Comanches, Apaches and Texas Rangers will all be working in concert with "Regular" troops to give Martin a black eye.
The filters that stop green gas will probably also work on the rager virus, the problem being, as terrance noted, that such a "filter" is going to very much restrict the flow of needed air and gradually become infected or toxic. There will need to be Decontamination flivvers. Troops will only be able to wear full gas-proof outfits for a limited period of time, as they will need to eat, sleep, and void waste in suits that grow more dangerous and uncomfortable by the minute. I spent one of the longest hours of my life in full MOPP.
In game terms, troops that have been in the field a bit too long might get negative modifiers on gas resistance, while having a positive modifier with the presence of a decontamination flivver.
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Post by boxholder on Oct 18, 2016 22:40:50 GMT
Hardlec and terrance smack it solidly!
Virus and bacteria are way bigger than gas molecules and are filtered effectively. A suit that is impermeable (effectively waterproof) will stop both UNLESS there is a corrosive or solvent component in the threat. Even then, gas would be much slower to attack than a liquid splash. A puncture or breach is another issue entirely.
The description of green gas says that it is a corrosive gas that attacks organic materials that it comes in contact with. Presumably, living, moist flesh is what is vulnerable. Certainly, largely metallic suits would be impervious.
Hardlec is also correct that filters eventually breakdown or saturate. However, the duration of scenarios in AQMF are short enough that this should not be an issue. Starting conditions for a scenario could specify a degraded condition for the humans.
You guys are right!! Working in any kind of protective suit for any extended time at any significant level of effort is miserable. Hearing and vision are impaired. Dexterity is reduced. They turn into mobile saunas in short order. And the greater the level of containment (protection), the more so. The only redeeming feature is that the alternative to the suit is truly WORSE.
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Post by madmorgan on Oct 20, 2016 3:05:54 GMT
Great discussion all! Okay, for our game the Armored/Assault suits protect from all forms of gas, dust, and viral agents with the big exception being if the suit is compromised. For game purposes there is no good reason to include post battle decontamination. Our poor friend that IG is modeling obviously ripped or tore his suit some how. All good; really looking forward to those figures IG!
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Post by scottwashburn on Oct 20, 2016 9:48:16 GMT
I discuss the problems of post-battle decontamination from the black dust in Book 2 of my Martian novels.
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Post by madmorgan on Oct 26, 2016 14:05:14 GMT
I'm going to do a work up using scotts airplane rules for my favorite plane of the period - the British Bristol F2B fighter/bomber. I'll add this to this thread in the next few days, based on the original stats I'd collected for my first attempt of rules before the XYZ system. Later
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