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Post by madmorgan on Jun 4, 2016 12:04:49 GMT
Congrats on 'Royal Tripod' status loyalist. The amount of complexity creep into the game is starter to strain playablity. A simple rule of a 3 drone squad controller by a single Assault tripod within 12" range should be enough to give more combat options to the Martian without overdue balance issues. Whilst changes in the range of control and the other points mentioned by tenchuu are all good options, I agree with loyalist that we should try to keep it simple. A good discussion all - we'll see how it flies after play testing the various above options some please.
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Post by mikedski on Jun 4, 2016 12:57:15 GMT
I think we would want to play-test advance and assault. Do you think the same would happen if the Slaver tripod goes down? Would all 9 Drones be able to advance and assault? Back on the old forum I proposed a rule that for an order token unit of drones could double move even if the move took them out of control range IF they could launch an assault.. Of course any further movement depended on resumption of control.
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Post by madmorgan on Jun 4, 2016 13:09:28 GMT
Does sound reasonable, especially with this quote from the AD rulebook "... Drone are semi-autonomous and can make limited decisions for themselves. Page 126, last sentence under "Drones".
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Post by madmorgan on Aug 2, 2016 11:40:41 GMT
Another thought along this thread is the use of Snipers without any attachment - just as a normal squad that can fire. A second thought is that the Sniper drone could be just setup with autofire at any human target in range. This would allow an Ambush style unit for the Martians. Only the Sniper could do this programming - all other drones require a Slaver as usual. A Martian 'Ambush' would not have the 'trap' available to human forces.
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Post by madmorgan on Aug 22, 2016 13:25:41 GMT
I strongly disagree with any change to the controller range. Part of the challenge for the Martian player is coordination of his various forces to engage and destroy the humans. There are enough variation of controllers to make this a viable situation as far as balance and allows for either full go assaults (Reaper with drones) or stand-off attacks (Slaver with Shock drones). And using the Ratio Rules allows for a huge number of either of the above units to decimate a human line. Imagine a Slaver with a group of 9 Shock Drones (3 to a box x 3 = 9) bombarding a trench line. Add a Scout with targeter and you've got that line rather quickly. I suppose what I'm saying is there is a balance issue if you start increasing the range that drones are controlled. 2 cents.
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Post by mikedski on Aug 23, 2016 11:54:50 GMT
The drones are neat little miniatures and add a nice visual touch to the game. The real issues for drones for me is not the controller range. The controllers and drones are the slow pokes in the Martian kit which negates a significant Martian advantage. And their loss counts for morale and initiative purposes.
I think it would be awesome to attach a unit of scorpions to a basic assault tripod.
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Post by tenchuu on Aug 23, 2016 13:34:53 GMT
That's kind of part and parcel with control range. If that was extended the drones wouldn't be that slow, right?
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Post by mikedski on Aug 23, 2016 14:55:55 GMT
That's kind of part and parcel with control range. If that was extended the drones wouldn't be that slow, right? Depending on use. If a trench line or city ruins needs to cleared than range is more important since the targets are stationary. If I like a unit of drones to escort my assault tripod to block those annoying rough riders than speed 8 would be nice.
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Post by hardlec on Sept 1, 2016 17:12:18 GMT
I would like folks to consider a "modular" specialist drones. A way to modify the existing standard drone in a way that is visible but. possibly with magnets, not permanent.
One type might be a "relay" drone that can extend the control range for three other drones: No more than 3 relay drones may be assigned to a controller. Relay drone must be within control range Up to three designated drones of the same type may operate within 12 inches of the relay drone.
One type of drone would be a "sniffer" drone designed to investigate blips.
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Post by madmorgan on Sept 2, 2016 7:08:31 GMT
Hmmm, there was a 'sneak' drone mentioned in drone pdf back when and I did a thread on some alternative drones, including one designed to 'sniff' out blips. I think I called it a 'detection' drone. The concept of a relay drone is good, but, I feel that to give more range to the drone controllers would unbalance the game. With the standard (I call long edge) table of only 48" wide and set on of forces you have very little need of further range on drone controller as they already can cover 1/4 of the table before even moving. Even with a 'short' edge table, the total length is 72" and the current controllers have 1/6 of that before moving.
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Post by hardlec on Sept 2, 2016 18:07:37 GMT
I need to clarify: A relay drone must be in control range of a controller tripod. The relay drone has it's own control range of 12 inches. Sort of like a little bubble budded off a bigger bubble. Relay drones may only control 3 drones of one type. It does not extend the range of the controller.
When ICG has caught up on drone production, we might ask for more types of drones.
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Post by terrance on Sept 2, 2016 18:53:09 GMT
I need to clarify: A relay drone must be in control range of a controller tripod. The relay drone has it's own control range of 12 inches. Sort of like a little bubble budded off a bigger bubble. Relay drones may only control 3 drones of one type. It does not extend the range of the controller. When ICG has caught up on drone production, we might ask for more types of drones. I'm liking this idea, at least as far as I have thought about it. I like the idea of drones and slave troops but generally find they are fairly ineffective because 1) they are slow moving and 2) killing the controller neutralizes all the drones and slaves. One thing to do is add more controllers to take over if the first controller is destroyed. Haven't really done this yet, but plan to soon. The use of a relay drone is another idea as it would give the controller a little more range and perhaps allow them to stay in cover and still get drones or slaves on target.
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Post by madmorgan on Sept 3, 2016 6:45:28 GMT
Yes, having played those Big games this last summer, with lots of Slavers and large numbers of drones about, might have jaded my thoughts on the matter. One big question hardlec is how many Relay Drones can a single Slaver (or other controller) have?? I'm okay with the limit of one squad of drones per relay. If you limit the relay to say three total (a squad) and drop the squads 3" rule (for the Relay only), I could see this on the table of a normal 2000 +/- battle. One Slaver with 3 Relay (1 squad) drones herding 9 total drones (3 squads) doesn't seem too bad. The questions are; 1/at what cost for the Relay drone, 2/Can they be used by other controllers (Reaper comes to mind), 3/and as a minor thought - how to display them as models (paint, a bit added to the figure, etc.). The summer battles I found it saw huge hordes of drones (great games again folks) so the thought of a Reaper bearing down with 3 squads of Scorpions 24" ahead of it is very depressing for a human player. The Scorpions are definitely not slow moving (8"). Okay lets see where this goes.
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Post by hardlec on Sept 3, 2016 16:32:28 GMT
Adding an Antenna made from a straight pin (with a bright red head) to a regular drone would be a good way to designate a relay drone. Stats would be the same as a regular drone with the added ability and adding 10 points per relay drone.
Put a magnet on the tail of a standard drone and use it to attach a bead. The beads can be various shapes and colors to designate different specialist drones. this would allow Ironclad to create several drone types to the mix with comparatively little investment in new pieces. Specialist drones could be "player designed" for specific scenarios.
More drones mean even more work for rough riders and tanks armed with multiple machine guns.
I would like to suggest adding the drone carrying ability to the Slaver. Mainly because I decided not to buy and Slavers in favor of multiple Reapers. For a minimum extra cost over the Slaver, the Reaper is an effective combat unit while the Slaver is little more than a high-value target.
The Slaver chassis becomes quite valuable. With tentacles it is a Reaper. With Grenadier launchers it is a Besieger. I don't think it will be necessary to modify the figure, or even increase the point cost of the model. Add the text: A Slaver may carry up to 9 drones.
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Post by madmorgan on Sept 4, 2016 9:59:58 GMT
As usual, lots of good ideas from hardlec. The points for the added antenna fall right in line with the ones I use for Forward Observers, which makes sense in a Martian kinda way. His second idea is even better as it doesn't 'damage' (okay its small) the model to do and you can change the colors (yes I realize this works for the pins as well) easily. The Slaver as a carrier is not really that necessary. With the relay drones, you have an effective increase in a Slavers capacity for drones. Envision a Slaver with a full squad (3) of relay drones supporting 3 squads of drones out front and a further 3 squads of drones within the standard 12" controller range. 18 drones! Gives a mg squad fits and two mg squad might take them out (small chance) before being overrun. I'm all for making it easy to convert figures, so the idea of using color markings in any form to designate variants is fine by me. I still think the Grenadier with MIRV launchers makes a better looking Besieger, but that is a more costly way to go. Cheers & TY hardlec
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