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Post by madmorgan on May 17, 2016 9:34:57 GMT
Time to open pages 79-113 and their erratas up for Changes. As before, parts 1 & 2 will remain open as well. And if not a change, please use the Optional thread. Thank you all for the input.
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Post by terrance on May 19, 2016 18:03:17 GMT
Response for pages 79 to 89. Page 87: Infantry and forlorn hope; The rules say up to half of infantry squads may have forlorn hope attached. Per discussion elsewhere on this forum this should be changed to all forlorn hope for up to all infantry squads.
Page 88: Machine gun squads; There was considerable discussion on the old forum that machine guns were overpowered especially with respect to tripods. I suggest we change the power rating for machine guns (squads, bike mounted rough rider, and vehicle or tank mounted) to be power +1 to infantry (note drones are classified infantry) and +0 for tripods, machines, and exceptionals.
Page 88: Rough Rider tow cable with cross reference to clamper tanks. RR tow cable attacks have no upper limit to number of immobilized markers that can be placed on a tripod. The clamper tank is limited to +1. It doesn't make sense that having a 30 ton anchor has less immobilizing effect than entanglement with cable. I suggest the immobilization for a clamper tank be made +3 and the upper limit for tow cable immobilization be +4.
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Post by madmorgan on May 19, 2016 19:41:04 GMT
I'll have to mull over these terrance, on a time schedule atm.
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Post by mikedski on May 24, 2016 0:02:30 GMT
Response for pages 79 to 89. Page 87: Infantry and forlorn hope; The rules say up to half of infantry squads may have forlorn hope attached. Per discussion elsewhere on this forum this should be changed to all forlorn hope for up to all infantry squads.
Page 88: Machine gun squads; There was considerable discussion on the old forum that machine guns were overpowered especially with respect to tripods. I suggest we change the power rating for machine guns (squads, bike mounted rough rider, and vehicle or tank mounted) to be power +1 to infantry (note drones are classified infantry) and +0 for tripods, machines, and exceptionals.
Page 88: Rough Rider tow cable with cross reference to clamper tanks. RR tow cable attacks have no upper limit to number of immobilized markers that can be placed on a tripod. The clamper tank is limited to +1. It doesn't make sense that having a 30 ton anchor has less immobilizing effect than entanglement with cable. I suggest the immobilization for a clamper tank be made +3 and the upper limit for tow cable immobilization be +4.
I 'm with you on modifications to the rules you mention. My comments;
1) forlorn hope. If every squad can get a forlorn hope for 15 points then may each squad should just get a permanent upgrade to +3 power in assaults? For example , the US Cavalry squad ( page 89) can get a +3 power in assault for additional 15 points. Why not infantry squads? Also I would like to see infantry HQ and field HQ be allowed to get a forlorn hope teams.
2) HMGs - I like the idea of toning down the abilities of the HMGs versus tripods. But keeping rate of fire of 3 still makes the lighter tripods (scouts, slavers, reapers) vulnerable, I would think. What has your experience been with this? I have been playing reduce ROF.
3) Rough Riders - I believe their should be a limit to the number of assaults a team can launch. Two per team. For their cost I believe rough riders are the hardest hitting units in the game. They are harder to hit, and great morale. They have a 50% chance of landing a hit and causing a tripod some consternation. A single tow cable has a 50% chance of causing damage if a tripod tries to break free. No other human weapon has that chance of success (except fully charged tesla gun).
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Post by mikedski on May 24, 2016 0:29:23 GMT
page 103
Refuel. If a steam powered vehicle unit begins any move phase within 6 inches of a fuel tender it can double is speed that movement phase. A unit that doubles its speed in this way cannot shoot this turn and is unable double its speed if it has already shot. REPLACE: A unit cannot shoot if refueled the 1st movement phase. If it has shot it cannot refuel the second move phase. ADD: if the unit does not elect to double its speed that movement phase than the unit can double its speed in one of it's movement phases in a later turn . This represents the unit being 'topped off' and having enough reserve fuel to perform a speed boost later. A unit can perform double move and shoot in subsequent turns after a refuel turn.
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Post by mikedski on May 24, 2016 1:06:35 GMT
page 103 extra munitions
if a tank or vehicle unit begins its turn within 6 inches of a munitions carrier, it can take one extra shot when it fires or in the case of howitzers - adds 1 to its barrage value. Note this +1 extra shot or barrage bonus if for the entire unit and not for each element in the unit.
Replace: each element in a tank unit can add one additional shot at the discretion of the firing player. For each element that uses a extra shot, roll one die. If any die results in a '1' then the munitions carrier is now empty and can no longer be used this way. For example a Mark II tank unit of three vehicles could add 1,2, or 3 additional shots. Then 1,2, or 3 die would be thrown to determine the status of the munitions carrier.
in the case of mobile artillery unit, each firing element that uses the munitions carrier bonus will allow the owning player to subtract 1 from the to hit die roll for each enemy element under the template. For example, a mobile artillery battery can subtract 1, 2, or 3 off the to hit die roll. . For each element that uses to hit bonus, roll one die. If any die results in a '1' then the munitions carrier is now empty and can no longer be used this way.
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Post by madmorgan on May 24, 2016 9:59:11 GMT
Wow lots to ponder - good thoughts as usual. In order - 1) I thought the +3 Assault from the Forlorn Hope was due to them placing explosives on the tripods. I don't think the whole unit should get this advantage. 2) I've never tried the RF1 for the HMGs. Frankly, I've done a lot of various weapon stats based on a RF3 HMG (LMGs, BARs, etc.) and changing to a RF 1 on these would negate all the others. Whilst I agree that it seems the HMG is a premier weapon in AQ due to it three attacks at +1 Power, its still just that - +1. Against most the tripods, especially the Assault and its larger cousins (Reaper, Dominator, etc.), this isn't that big a bonus, even with the 'extra' two rolls. After watching the effects of a HMG in the Young Indiana Jones series (admitively TV but I think pretty accurate), I'm of the option that the HMG of the period should indeed have three rolls at +1. I must try some RF 1, but if I go along with this rule, I'll have to rework particularly the Lewis LMG and all those tanks with multiple mgs (MkIIIsupport). 3) I totally agree with you on the number of attacks the RRs can do in a game. I guess after they've used their two attacks, they become mobile infantry with a MG. Still useful on the battlefield, especially with their moral, but, more limited to taking on things like drones and low armor value targets (Slavers et al). I like the refueling change. You need to respell ...than... to 'then', but it definately is an improvement to the rule. I'm not so sure about the munitions change though. First, it would Greatly increase the value of the munitions rule, giving three shots instead of one in most cases. Second, as I read it, you stand the chance of getting nothing from the munitions carrier/cart on the very first phase of fire if a 1 is rolled. Maybe I misunderstand as the example you give shows the additional shots first and ammo out rolls second. Third, I don't see the need for special rules on the mobile artillery, as we've already covered extra dice due to template size (every bonus over 4" gives an extra die to hit) elsewhere. I think it would be fine to up the ammo per the elements vs unit; but, this implies a change in the cost perhaps of the carrier/cart as this rule would triple the firepower per phase. Remember these are all thoughts and I don't mean to sound critical of your excellent suggestions. As much as I want the Humans to win an AQ battle, there is always the playbalance side to contend with. Mull over these and let me know if I'm really offbase or misunderstanding what you're about with these - as always I really enjoy your ideas and comments.
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Post by mikedski on May 24, 2016 12:53:33 GMT
Not taken as critisim at all. I just do not think the munitions carrier adds any real bonus per current rules except simple mark II tanks. An extra shot for three tanks. Or perhaps tagging one along with a Mark IV Monitor tank.
Per the rules, appears only tank mounted guns or or tank mounted artillery benefit from munition carriers. So you can't park one next to your heavy artillery battery or AT gun and get the bonus.
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Post by terrance on May 24, 2016 17:25:51 GMT
Mikedski, responding to your question on the HMGs. By keeping the ROF 3, you expect 4.5 hits on average (9 dice for 6+). If I did the math right it is about a 7% change of getting at least one 10, which is what you need to damage without a power bonus. So overall about 3.5% chance of damaging armor and less than 1% chance of the tripod blowing up. So the math seems reasonable. My actual experience is that I am totally incapable of throwing even one 10 no matter how many dice I am throwing.
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Post by terrance on May 24, 2016 17:33:23 GMT
page 103 Refuel. If a steam powered vehicle unit begins any move phase within 6 inches of a fuel tender it can double is speed that movement phase. A unit that doubles its speed in this way cannot shoot this turn and is unable double its speed if it has already shot. REPLACE: A unit cannot shoot if refueled the 1st movement phase. If it has shot it cannot refuel the second move phase. ADD: if the unit does not elect to double its speed that movement phase than the unit can double its speed in one of it's movement phases in a later turn . This represents the unit being 'topped off' and having enough reserve fuel to perform a speed boost later. A unit can perform double move and shoot in subsequent turns after a refuel turn. Seems like a good change.
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Post by madmorgan on May 25, 2016 10:05:23 GMT
It does appear that it was confined to "tank or vehicle unit" only. At the last Historicon that Ernie ran those massive games, he was allowing the munitions carrier to support my Heavy Field Battery. But, in any case, a rework of the rule including upgrade of its effect (ei. +1 shot per element) would be a welcome change - so, I can go for the 'upgrade' to 'per element'. The Martians won't like it. I still think there isn't any need to 'specialize' for the mobile artillery, as the new optional rules for adding dice per area of effect over 4" takes care of the bonus.
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Post by mikedski on May 25, 2016 11:54:26 GMT
But I would still have one die roll for each element firing. Munitions carriers cost only 30 points. Its bonus should be fleeting and used at the right opportunity or moment of desperation.
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Post by madmorgan on May 25, 2016 12:10:53 GMT
Agreed - please repost your rule with the above changes for a final look
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Post by terrance on May 25, 2016 19:02:46 GMT
Wow lots to ponder - good thoughts as usual. In order - 1) I thought the +3 Assault from the Forlorn Hope was due to them placing explosives on the tripods. I don't think the whole unit should get this advantage. I agree with Madmorgan on this. Keep the basic infantry power +2 and the forlorn hope power +3. The extra power for the forlorn hope is due to the special weapons they have. Once they are gone the squad is back to basic assault abilities.
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Post by loyalist on May 25, 2016 22:02:11 GMT
Wow lots to ponder - good thoughts as usual. In order - 1) I thought the +3 Assault from the Forlorn Hope was due to them placing explosives on the tripods. I don't think the whole unit should get this advantage. I agree with Madmorgan on this. Keep the basic infantry power +2 and the forlorn hope power +3. The extra power for the forlorn hope is due to the special weapons they have. Once they are gone the squad is back to basic assault abilities. I have the same opinion.
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