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Post by turno on Dec 18, 2015 15:08:55 GMT
So with the possibility of being able to edit/revise the rules what do we want to see change?
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Post by Admin on Dec 18, 2015 15:48:46 GMT
It would be good to gather all the fan made rules in one place. I know there were a lot of fan made models with rules out there. Also create rules for any released models that don't have them
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Post by mikedski on Dec 22, 2015 10:13:35 GMT
Some thoughts.
1) Starting to experiment with HMG as ROF 3 versus infantry targets only and ROF 1 versus tripods/machines and allowing US tanks to shoot HMGs concurrently with this modification.
2) Rough Riders with limited supply - each element can only launch two tow cable assaults per game.
3) The artillery/ barrage weapon rules. I would like to consider FOW style - all barrage weapons use the 4 inch template but hit likelihood based on number of weapons firing. As it stands now a three gun steamer mobile arty seems underpowered and the three gun heavy battery arty way over powered.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2015 5:00:55 GMT
Would also like a split between Infantry and Anti Tank weapons.
Of course much of these were already talked about, will see if the way back machine can help.
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Post by madmorgan on Dec 31, 2015 3:57:26 GMT
Hmmm mikedski brings up some good points 1/if the coaxial and hull HMGs can fire at same time as the tank guns, the split of RF for the HMG is useful (RF3 vs Inf/RF1 vs other). Question, what about against buildings, can a HMG element 'ruin' a building?? I would think so, based on some of the various firefights I've seen and movies on the subject. See page 70 for my reference.
2/Not so sure if 'limited' ammo works for RRiders, but depends on what you think the tow cable projectors are. They seem to be large calibre shotgun style weapons, rather like the grappling hook guns (see Saving Private Ryan for example). As such, with a sidecar, you could carry quite a few in a battle. I think I'd pass on this one, trying to keep it simple and not add another counter to the board.
3/I purpose that the mobile batteries also be able to fire as seperate guns/howitzers ("individual fire") as a rule - easier to add the rule then change the whole system at this point. But, I do like the thinking behind the whole thing Mike.
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Post by madmorgan on Dec 31, 2015 4:10:58 GMT
I want the 1.65" gun on the MkIVs to go back to the rulebook version: Range 30" +1 Power RateofFire 2. This thing is 3 times the size of a 50cal. The rate of fire reduction makes up for the added range. It makes more sense on the MkIV range layout & it can still work with mikedski s rule 1 - RF 2 vs Inf. RF 1 vs Non-Inf. Alternately, make it equal to a 6pdr (1.85") gun with Rng 20" +2Pow. Heck the Monotanks have a 2pdr repeater at 15" with +2Pow, so it's not out of the question. btw 2pdr = 1.575" = 40mm (the famous 'pom-pom' guns of ww2). If we use the mike1 rule, the repeater doesn't fall into an easy catagory. Just saying, changing the RF lineup will cause some confusion.
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Post by madmorgan on Dec 31, 2015 4:45:56 GMT
Would also like a split between Infantry and Anti Tank weapons. Of course much of these were already talked about, will see if the way back machine can help. I'll have to repost my thread on Infantry Guns vs AntiTank weapons. I was not liking the idea of the ATg being able to 'Ambush' although I realize the tactic was common in WW2. But, for the Ambush, I prefer to use the smaller Infantry weapons, like 57mm/37mm/etc and Bazookas (ready at wars end in 1918 IRL) or the other such items. Anyway, I'll gradually try to repost some of my weapons lists and TO&Es for various forces. |
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Post by mikedski on Dec 31, 2015 10:22:21 GMT
The interesting thing is the main rule book states only human infantry units can ambush - as in hidden without even need for blips.
ATG guns, arty, and vehicles can be hidden as represented by a blip.
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Post by madmorgan on Dec 31, 2015 10:45:01 GMT
Yes you're right - the big advantage of Ambush is there is no marker on the table and usually there are several terrain areas that can hide one, so its better than the 'blip' and isn't spotted at all even within the standard 6" & LoS rule. Note that blips, unlike Ambush, can be 'recon fired'(my term) having a Def 5 Arm 4 - a successful hit reveals the unit (but doesn't hurt it, kinda 'kills the blip'). So the Lobos with blasters or even the standard drones have a good chance of flushing a hidden unit, setting it up for the dreaded focused heat ray. The Ambush unit is perfect as the Marvin can go right on by and even be caught in the rear if not careful to check the terrain. Plus you usually get to set Ambushes in really good places - based on the scenario. Note that a Detector (fixed support tower) can detect within 12". I've always maintained that the Scientist tripod should have this ability as well or at least there should be a Mars unit that carries a detector forward. Perhaps the Scouts targeter can do this with a simple rule: A Scouts targeter can also be used to detect an Ambush within 12" of the Scout. It can't be used for any targeting if it does this. This reflexes change to detection vs target wavelength settings. What do you think?? I supposed in my Infantry Gun thread that you could, if given enough time, setup a dugin ambush for a regular ATg; the WW2 guns didn't have the problem of a 40m tall machine looking at them. It could be argued that aircraft of the time sometimes spotted the concealed gun, but the Mars machine is more a helicopter hover altitude thing. I agree theres a valid point to consider here about ambushing ATguns. I'm concerned that the game might suffer when I put my HFGun in ambush - it doesn't seem right somehow is all.
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Post by madmorgan on Dec 31, 2015 10:57:25 GMT
Some further thoughts - it would be pretty helpful to come up with some scale for the game. Both in time and especially in space, there is no scales used in AQMF. Interesting and helpful to keep the games ranges, etc. open for free flowing play. I've seen so many historically 'accurate' games bog down due to arguements on ranges or rates of fire due to exact measurements. But, I purpose as a jumping off point for discussion that the game scale is 3mm = 1'. This is based on the size of the figure (18mm) respresenting a 6' man. I realize that most human species have only recently in human history achieved a 6' average size, but for game purposes we can use this. So a human figure is roughly 2yds tall. For time lets give it a 12 minute per turn base. This allows for 5 turns being an hour, the rolled extension bringing the battle close to and hour & one-half. 12 is also very divisionable, by 2s or 3s, allowing for more complex turns for those wanting to change the turn sequence. The lack of opportunity fire is assumed in the the turns size, with the move/fire or assault/move being more tactical and the orders move (no fire/assault phase) putting you in affect in a opportunity fire by the defenders phase setup. I'm not making alot of sense here I'm afraid - more coffee. Bottom line Time Scale - one turn is 12 minutes Space Scale 3mm = 1'. Comments?
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Post by mikedski on Dec 31, 2015 18:30:31 GMT
I just put two of those triangle looking immobilized markers on each rough rider stand.
I figure they can carry only so much cable. If they miss it's not like they are going to try and reel it back up. At least I would not.
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Post by madmorgan on Jan 1, 2016 2:40:58 GMT
I just put two of those triangle looking immobilized markers on each rough rider stand. I figure they can carry only so much cable. If they miss it's not like they are going to try and reel it back up. At least I would not. Yes I agree with you - that weighty cable is the key - much like the little vehicles in Empire Strikes Back, you only had one per vehicle. I guess if its easy to do with those markers it would work. Must make sure the USA player understands this new rule though. |
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Post by mikedski on Jan 1, 2016 9:18:50 GMT
Perhaps the Scouts targeter can do this with a simple rule: A Scouts targeter can also be used to detect an Ambush within 12" of the Scout. It can't be used for any targeting if it does this. This reflexes change to detection vs target wavelength settings. What do you think?? I supposed in my Infantry Gun thread that you could, if given enough time, setup a dugin ambush for a regular ATg; the WW2 guns didn't have the problem of a 40m tall machine looking at them. It could be argued that aircraft of the time sometimes spotted the concealed gun, but the Mars machine is more a helicopter hover altitude thing. I agree theres a valid point to consider here about ambushing ATguns. I'm concerned that the game might suffer when I put my HFGun in ambush - it doesn't seem right somehow is all. 1) The scout as a mobile detector with a 12 inch range would be a okay modification. Additional 50 points to carry the targeter / detector combo. A single scout with a double move and a 12 inch detector range can totally disrupt Human battle plans. Stealth, hidden units and ambush are "historical fluff" defining advantages to the human side. 2) I think the rules have it right for ambush being only for teams rated as infantry. Infantry squad with a forlorn hope team, heavy infantry, AT snipers, HMG unit, even rough riders could be a bit of surprise in the Martian back field. |
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Post by mikedski on Jan 1, 2016 9:37:58 GMT
Some further thoughts - it would be pretty helpful to come up with some scale for the game. Both in time and especially in space, there is no scales used in AQMF. Interesting and helpful to keep the games ranges, etc. open for free flowing play. I've seen so many historically 'accurate' games bog down due to arguements on ranges or rates of fire due to exact measurements. But, I purpose as a jumping off point for discussion that the game scale is 3mm = 1'. This is based on the size of the figure (18mm) respresenting a 6' man. I realize that most human species have only recently in human history achieved a 6' average size, but for game purposes we can use this. So a human figure is roughly 2yds tall. For time lets give it a 12 minute per turn base. This allows for 5 turns being an hour, the rolled extension bringing the battle close to and hour & one-half. 12 is also very divisionable, by 2s or 3s, allowing for more complex turns for those wanting to change the turn sequence. The lack of opportunity fire is assumed in the the turns size, with the move/fire or assault/move being more tactical and the orders move (no fire/assault phase) putting you in affect in a opportunity fire by the defenders phase setup. I'm not making alot of sense here I'm afraid - more coffee. Bottom line Time Scale - one turn is 12 minutes Space Scale 3mm = 1'. Comments? I do not think the designer of the game was thinking that hard about the distance/ time scales other than HO provides a cool opportunity for modeling and still can play on the usual 6x4 foot table. The relatively short direct fire weapon ranges encourage maneuver. A turn is a turn because someone has to move and shoot.
How's the coffee? Happy New Year!
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Post by madmorgan on Jan 1, 2016 13:44:38 GMT
Yep, I think one of the 'charms' of the game is its lack of a scale & time sitting usual to most miniature games. It does limit the addition of new weapons to one where the designer had the most control, a feature I'm sure AD was well aware of. But, once we take the rules for guidelines vs The Law, things become a real 'weapons race' kinda thing. For example, a basic tenure of the game is that vehicle mounted weapons have far less range than their artillery counterparts. Makes sense in a lot of way and, as you say, provides maneuver. A good example - the 3" gun on a MkI has a range of 30" and +1 power. The same gun in the FA battery has a range of 60", as power of +3 and a barrage of 1. We also know that tank guns usually fired barrages against infantry as well as countering armor - but, most of our concepts (at least mine) were shaped by WW2 knowledge. Factors were much different in WW1 even with the 'fantasy' setting of AQ.
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