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Post by scottwashburn on May 2, 2016 15:26:32 GMT
Of course, the one big problem with any sort of minefield/trap is how many of them you actually need to create a real barrier. The geometry is relentless when you start figuring the areas and the numbers. Especially when you consider expendable drones and lobototons which can sweep the area in front of the tripods so you need significant depth as well as width.
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Post by madmorgan on May 2, 2016 16:43:13 GMT
I think maybe its going to be part of the Optional section - new traps and ambushes maybe. In another thread, I showed two versions of Miniature Building Authority 107mm remote launches - one with 4 unlaunched and one with 3 gone (launched) and one misfire still on the track. As these are remote fired via a wire (seen on the models) and buried for our purposes back to the controlling unit, they make good ambush pieces as well.
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Post by boxholder on May 2, 2016 17:08:04 GMT
Command detonated or command armed mines are one way around the lobototon and drone problem, assuming enough time to emplace them. I suspect that lobototons are not really bright enough to disarm or sweep mines and the drones are not likely to have the dexterity. So, plan to let them pass and save your mines/fougasses for the good stuff following.
Plus, command detonation can let you fake the following units by detonating some small sacrificial mines. This would make it appear that the lobos/drones have detonated the mines and created a corridor. Meanwhile, the good ones remain waiting for Marvin and his pals to rush the supposedly safe corridor.
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Post by scottwashburn on May 2, 2016 18:05:47 GMT
True, but consider, too, that command detonated mines require an electric cable from the commander to the mine which has to survive weeks or months of exposure to the elements. I am reminded of the Union naval bombardment of Charleston where the USS New Ironsides anchored directly above a Confederate mine. It had been sitting out there for a while and refused to detonate when the Confederates threw the switch. Also, your command detonated mine needs a commander which has A) survived and B) has a clear line of sight (or communications with someone with a clear line of sight) to know when to throw the switch. Not automatic things to be sure. I'm not saying these ideas won't work, but they are not as easy as they might seem.
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Post by David N.Tanner 07011959 on May 2, 2016 19:33:30 GMT
True, but consider, too, that command detonated mines require an electric cable from the commander to the mine which has to survive weeks or months of exposure to the elements. I am reminded of the Union naval bombardment of Charleston where the USS New Ironsides anchored directly above a Confederate mine. It had been sitting out there for a while and refused to detonate when the Confederates threw the switch. Also, your command detonated mine needs a commander which has A) survived and B) has a clear line of sight (or communications with someone with a clear line of sight) to know when to throw the switch. Not automatic things to be sure. I'm not saying these ideas won't work, but they are not as easy as they might seem. That's why we roll dice. To abstract the variables.
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Post by hardlec on May 4, 2016 14:24:59 GMT
One advantage of command detonation is the minefield can easily be cleared with the throw of a switch. If the switch works. If you have a mixture of mines, some only detonate for Tripods, some only for drones or lobots, the effect of using drones to clear mines will be reduced. The Russians marched German POWs through minefields to clear them. Mines will: Raise an alarm. Deny an area for a while. Slow down an advance. In a strategic sense, they cost the enemy more to remove than to make and place. In a tactical sense they will restrict enemy movement. They won't win battles by themselves.
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Post by boxholder on May 4, 2016 17:15:16 GMT
And the Iranians marched their own children through minefields in the Iran-Iraq war.
It is absolutely true that mines don't win battles by themselves. They constitute another layer of delay and casualty if the opponent tries to move through them. They can deter the attack and channel its direction. They can also add uncertainty if the attacker does not know how densely, sparsely, or even if they have been planted. Blundering into an unexpected minefield can really mess with your mind.
Irrespective, passively waiting is no way to win. An active attacker will find a way around you.
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Post by madmorgan on May 5, 2016 9:43:06 GMT
Indeed. Mines will allow you to light them up with regular forces.
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Post by hardlec on May 5, 2016 15:30:35 GMT
Systematic defense is a system of systems. Because the Martians lack heavy artillery the stockade style forts of the old west, updated with new materials, become a strategic weapon in the war against the Martians. The rules for traps etc. are fine. There is no need for special rules for each trap. The great variety of models is wonderful.
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Post by madmorgan on May 6, 2016 2:30:04 GMT
Is asbestos able to be made into a paint or blended into?? What color would it be?? I can see some stockade forts paint 'asbestos'. Heck, any wood structure would stand a coat. Yes, we know the long term effect - Mars might wipe out most of humanity with the asbestos the humans use to protect itself from the Martian heatray.
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Post by boxholder on May 6, 2016 12:02:10 GMT
Asbestos fibers are essentially colorless (white) and could be blended into a paint type binder. But the binder will probably ignite and burn away from the fiber. Some sort of ceramic or cement type binder might work.
But, I think Mr Washburn and others are on the right track with concrete. I has a lot of water entrained in its structure and water is a wonderful heat absorber as it boils off. It is cheap, readily available and can be formed into structures as needed. Plus, the structures can be formed in place or formed elsewhere and transported for assembly at the location, LEGO style. As cited above, the Martian lack of explosive ordnance makes this very feasible.
The concrete might even be formed with internal chambers for even more water, almost making the walls "sweat" as the heat ray works on them.
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Post by terrance on May 6, 2016 19:57:11 GMT
My only experience with concrete and heat is using a cutting torch to cut iron sticking out from concrete. I found that there was a lot of spalling from the concrete. If the moisture evaporates (boils) too fast it cannot escape through the pores and instead breaks off pieces of the concrete to escape. It is the same reason for not lining your fire pit with rocks you just pulled out of the river.
It should be possible to design concrete with a high water content that releases it in a controlled way, but I don't know if the material sciences of the day were up to it.
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Post by scottwashburn on May 6, 2016 21:43:07 GMT
Actually, the last thing you want in your concrete is water. The water will boil and expand, cracking the concrete. Fortunately, properly made and cured concrete has very little water in it. Many people think that because you mix concrete with water that it then "dries" with the water slowly evaporating. Wrong, what takes place is a chemical reaction called hydration where the water chemically bonds with the cement. Fully cured concrete has almost no free water in it. Some types can even cure under water. And concrete has great heat resistance. Spray-on concrete is often used as fire insulation on steel structures.
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Post by boxholder on May 7, 2016 2:29:27 GMT
You are correct that there is not free water in cured concrete. The thermal resistance of concrete comes when heat essentially reverses the curing reaction. You end up with free water vapor, lime and CO2(from decomposed limestone aggregate and the Portland cement), and possibly sand that is being fused. All of those reactions carry away heat.
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Post by madmorgan on May 7, 2016 8:57:33 GMT
As anyone with a 'leaky' basement can relate to, wet concrete blocks shed lime and somethimes sand, as the ground water seaping in creates the reverse of the curing.
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