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Post by terrance on Apr 1, 2016 20:52:30 GMT
On the old forum someone (I think maybe it was Scott Washburn) started a thread on when human and Martian equipment becomes available. Someday I plan to do a time based campaign in which both sides are limited to what is available in the given year. So I have been thinking about this again. Here is my proposed timeline. It is based on the list from the old forum (which I had kept a hard copy), dates given or implied in the rulebook, and extrapolation or just plain guessing on my part. Equipment is listed by year for human and Martian. An asterisk (*) by the name of a piece of equipment indicates I did not find any hard evidence for the equipment being available in that year, but it seems about right. Feed back, corrections, and other opinions are welcome.
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Post by terrance on Apr 1, 2016 21:18:20 GMT
This list should be treated as an optional tool for anyone wanting to generate scenarios with date-relevant TOEs. No one should feel constrained to be limited by the list. The entries under "fan-generated" are optional units invented by forum contributors and so are "non-canon". They plug perceived holes in the timeline and extend the timeline. Enjoy in any way you please. Entries marked with an * do not have clear data in the AQ rulebook or PDFs regarding when they were introduced.
Pre-1908 US Human Infantry squad Infantry command Machine guns Cavalry Marines Field guns Flivvers (flatbed version)*
Martian Null
Fan-generated US Human Texas rangers (Madmorgan) Apatches (Madmorgan)
1908 US human Forlorn Hope*
Martian Assault tripod with heat ray Constructor engine Sentinel Detector Power node Heat ray fence Black dust
1909 US human Heavy field guns Holt gun tractor* Armored flivver with machine gun* US armored car (machine gun)*
Fan-generated Gun trucks (portee) (Loyalist)
Martian Scout tripod Harvester tripod Gatherer tripod* Founder tripod
1910 US human Rough riders Anti-tripod gun Holt mobile artillery Mk I steam tank
Martian Grenadier tripod Scout tripod with targeter* Scientist tripod Green gas
Fan-generated Human Villistas (Madmorgan)
1911 US human Heavy infantry* Mk II steam tank Mk IIt gun tractor* Mk IIb steam tank* Mk IImg machine gun tank* Mk IIc command tank*
Martian Null
1912 US human Mk III steam tank* Mk IIIs infantry support tank* Armored infantry carrier Mk II mobile artillery Clamp tank (possibly out of service by 1914)
Martian Slaver tripod Drones (basic) Reaper tripod*
Fan-generated US human MkIIIc command tank (terrance) Texas tank (Madmorgan) Texas tea tosser (Madmorgan) Texas longhorn (Madmorgan) Armored car "Gila" (Madmorgan) Armored car "Rattler" (Madmorgan) Armored car "Diamondback" (Madmorgan)
1913 US human Minelayer tank* Cargo steamers (Fuel tender, Munitions carrier)*
Martian Dominator tripod Scorpion drones Shock drones Veteran assault tripod*
Fan-generated US human MkVB "David" tank (Madmorgan)
Martian Detection drones (Madmorgan) Stealth drones (Madmorgan) Booster drones (Madmorgan)
1914 US human MK IV tank MK IV monitor tank* Tesla lightning gun tank Mk IV Armored command post* Mk V Goliath Land ironclad* Flame gun turret Armored command post (static) Edison wire
Martian Lobototons Overseer tripod Sniper drones Hover drones Royal scientist tripod Virus bomb
Fan-generated
'Terror' tank [first example found at the Battle of St. Louis] (Madmorgan)
1915 US human Mk IV flame tank
Martian Null
1916 Fan-generated Martian Whipper tripod (Madmorgan) Dominator II tripod (Madmorgan) Overseer II tripod (Madmorgan) Controlled Anti-infantry Bipedal Drone (CABD) (Madmorgan) |
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Post by madmorgan on Apr 2, 2016 11:20:17 GMT
Nice, you caught several that I'd missed when I reposted Scotts work. Lets look at year by year.
1908/USA good catch on the Marines, I'd not listed them at all! BTW I always note that their flag was Blue - it was changed to the Red we know now in 1939IRL. I include the Forlorn Hope in this year.
1909/USA Disagree on the Forlorn Hope, as they would be an early attempt at stopping tripods. I suppose they might not of been organized and implimented till 1909. We can let that stand. Good addition of the gun tractor - this causes me to change my timeline look as its apparent that the Clamper and MkI couldn't be available until at least 1910. This also skews my various OOBs for 1909 battles, which I will fix soon. Good show! I like your list better frankly.
1909/MARs From both you & Scott, I wonder why the Founder wouldn't have been around from the start - but, maybe it took a year to get the colonizer into a tripod format (the original was the cyclinder of coarse).
1910/MARs I strongly suggest that the Scouts Targetter was created this year to help the aiming of the new Grenadier tripod.
1911/ - all good.
1912/USA noticed you put your MkIIIc tank in the mix. I like the tank btw, but feel you should keep this list 'pure' for the rulebook and perhaps do a 2nd list with any of the many optional tanks submitted by forum members. Your MkIIIc, my various tanks, and deathfromabove comes to mind. I'm sure there's a nice list there which could be added to onwards. Gads my "brb" turned into an all day situation - sorry on it for awhile this morning.
1913/ - MARs Scouts Targetter, I strongly believe this belongs with the introduction of the Grenadier
1914/USA addition: Flame Turrets - these were at the 1914 battle of Shreveport on page 27. Not the tank, just the above wall turrent. Also a Command Tower as well. But, its the smallest of possibilities that that awkward Command Tank was built just for moving to a wall position. It would have the advantage of being able to move to other positions along the wall (maybe) and the 4" guns might be able to fire over the wall.
1915/- all good.
So there's my suggests. I agree with boxholder below about a seperate list for the 'exotics' meaning the non-rulebook units. I do suggest you put your excellent MkIIIc (command) into that list, not this one. It will avoid confusion for new readers and old. Thank you again for this (and the next?) listings, its definately a work of love of the game and we all benefit. This will definately be a part of optional rules section of the LRBook. I agree with boxholder that one should have always have the option to declare "counts as", but, I add that the vehicle/unit in question must have some sort of marker on it (1/4" colored dot on a stand or vehicle or small colored pipecleaner,etc) so there is no confusion on the table as to a unit being other than is shown. 'So what is that yellow dot MkIII tank unit for the game?' 'Oh those are 5" gunned MkIV s!' Big diff.
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Post by boxholder on Apr 2, 2016 12:27:35 GMT
Separating the basic articles from the exotics and optionals is a very good idea. You could add another column to the chart to incorporate them into a unified listing.
I would also suggest that this be optional itself. You don't want to destroy the ability of players with limited equipment being "obsoleted" out of the game world (as GW was so fond of doing). Of course, a "counts as..." rule can be used to extend the usefulness of items owned.
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Post by madmorgan on Apr 3, 2016 19:05:23 GMT
Oh, I forgot to ask - anything about the flivvers?? I'd think that the Armored might come along a little later than the others, but, thats an added complication that probably isn't needed. Of coarse, the mounting of HMGs would be right away and the 'gun trucks' might be early or later depending on your view of it. For simplicity sake (gads don't we want that!), the Flivver and its varients all start in 1908 right?? BTW I actually tried to work out a timeline campaign OOB as well as my attempt at a Random Game Rules. Cheers!
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Post by terrance on Apr 4, 2016 19:03:39 GMT
Thanks for the comments. I agree 100% that the timeline list is optional. Players should have absolute freedom to ignore the date and put anything on the table to make a good game.
Forlorn hope in 1908? Probably should be. I was thinking of 1908 as equipment and units existing before the timeline split. I'm going to make a new date of pre-1908 and move the human stuff there. Then Forlorn Hope can move to 1908. There can be an interesting discussion of ad hoc Forlorn Hope vs TOE Forlorn hope, but that might be a little too nerdy even for us. Or perhaps not. 
1910; good catch on the targeter. I agree it sould have come out about the same time as the grenadier.
Also nice thoughts on fan-based optional units. I'll take the Mk IIIc out. Have to think a little bit more about how to incorporate fan-based optional units without making the list too messy.
1914; Flame turret. Good catch. When building the original list I briefly thought about the use of naval guns in turrets and barbets. A little more research is in order as to when the big guns started appearing in land defenses. Also in reviewing the battle of Shreveport I see Edison wire was new there. I'll add to 1914.
Flivvers, yes, forgot about flivvers. You are probably right the basic flivver should be in 1908. I would suggest the armored MG truck the year after just to allow for some development time. Perhaps someone who is better versed in automobile history than I could weigh in with when a truck this size would have been available. I do recall that in WWI the US was the most mechanized army in Europe, and that after the war Eisenhower lead an expedition to drive from the East coast to the West coast and had a very rough time getting there. This was sponsored by the army. During the war they had bought whatever equipment was being manufactured and the expedition was to test which equipment was tough and versatile enough to get on the permanent army equipment list. That could argue for pushing the flivver out a bit in time.
I'll make some edits. |
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Post by terrance on Apr 4, 2016 19:11:33 GMT
Also there is the US Armored Car with MG. I have a box of those to assemble and forgot about them. How would 1912 work for these showing up?
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Post by madmorgan on Apr 4, 2016 21:10:44 GMT
I would suppose that would work - I'm sure after seeing the success of the BEF "Silver Foxes", the US commanders would be keen to have something similiar. Look forward to seeing what you come up with on both the 'historical' list and a new 'optional' units. Most appreciated!
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Post by terrance on Apr 5, 2016 19:03:30 GMT
I spent an hour last night on the internet researching early 1900's autos and WWI vehicles. Based on the styles of vehicles I found for 1908 and earlier, I'm not certain the AD flivver was likely to have existed in 1908. However for the game we probably need to keep it as available in 1908. For one thing, unless one builds horses and limbers there is no way to tow the field guns.
British armored cars started showing up as early as 1914 in WWI, so it seems reasonable that in the AQ universe motorized vehicles would be armored fairly soon after the Martian war started. So I will put the US armored car at 1909.
For the optional, fan-based vehicles I need to go through the forum and make a list before assigning them dates. That may take awhile.
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Post by madmorgan on Apr 6, 2016 8:47:03 GMT
Fortunately, OG has some nice wagons in the British WW1 list and some fairly simple limbers in the AWI section. I prefer those over the ACW stuff as they seem more flexible with their horses and don't have crew unless you want them too. There a nice selection of buggies, wagons, etc. in the Wild West section as well. And theres always the True North (Italian tab) tractor for pulling guns - very period looking. TY for your research and look forward to what you come up with.
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Post by terrance on Apr 8, 2016 18:49:55 GMT
I've started adding the fan-generated units to the timeline. Madmorgan and Loyalist you might take a look and see if you agree.
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