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Post by mikedski on Feb 20, 2016 22:03:36 GMT
I figure they do not view it initially as warfare with an enemy with an equivalent intellect. They view humans as nutritious local fauna that can be a nuisance. Much like settlers clearing the environment for habitation but have to kill the snakes, spiders, the occasional wolf. Maybe you cover it in your book (pre-ordered!) but the first failed invasion taught the Martians the wrong lessons?
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Post by hardlec on Feb 21, 2016 8:02:02 GMT
There are several occasions in human history where an aggressor has been caught short by the unexpected tactics of a new culture being invaded.
The Martians do not seem to have the flexibility to adapt to human resistance, and the humans are quite adept at learning and adapting.
It is ironic that Martin the Martian came looking for a fight, then being slow to realize they had one.
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Post by madmorgan on Feb 21, 2016 11:23:36 GMT
And in that irony, we survive and thrive! I see a poster slogan there somewhere. 'When Mars came looking for a fight, we're giving them one - Buy Bonds!' Or 'Lets kick some sand into its machines! Support you navy!' Finally, 'I love my nylons - to strangle Martians with! Join the Rough Riders!' (with the appropriate babe picture).
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Post by hardlec on Feb 22, 2016 14:52:36 GMT
The Martians also unleased the purple virus. Still not very impressive. They have no fliers, very little in the line of anti-flier weapons, and no real artillery or counter artillery.
By declining communication, they have no intelligence network (spies) and they have no allies among humanity. While the French show their typical tepid response, and the Germans and the Austro-Hungarians are busy polishing their spurs withe their arses, the British, Americans and Japanese seem to be working together, the Turks and Brits are holding the middle East. The Martians are not getting any help from any humans, albeit humans could work together better.
So far, the only adaptation they seem to have made since Memphis is to weaponize cows.
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Post by madmorgan on Feb 23, 2016 12:09:28 GMT
LOL! Well, I've put some new drone types out, so maybe their working on stuff somewhat. But, I agree with your analysis of the situation. Theres been some discussion in other threads about the possible breakup of the French/German alliance. Within that possiblity, the flow of new units to USA would make for some interesting situations, as the three european powers avoided working with each other. I thought about the French already being 'here' to help in the form of two regular 'volunteer' regiments (87th & 114th Americal) and some French Foreign Legion. I'm sure it would be the Germans who'd help reinforce the Chicago area lines, far from the French and British. The effects of this on the Balken Alliance would be drastic, giving a rise to more nationalistic tendings to self. The question is Italy and Austria-Hungrey. I'd think that the Austrians would follow the German lead, helping out along the northern frontiers whilist the Italians would definately be in the Chicago area and perhaps further south along the MS river. The biggest question overall is what do these powers do in their own backyards. Apart from my Venusian ficton, how do the French/German units on their borders act?? Does Austrian try and grab some of Italy?? Do they truely ally against the 'common foe' or revert to centuries old hatreds in addition to helping fight the alien invasions??
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Post by mikedski on Feb 23, 2016 12:38:06 GMT
This thread seems to have been pruned? I was not the original poster.
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Post by boxholder on Feb 23, 2016 13:21:17 GMT
Re: Strangling Martians
Uh..Where do you put the nylon stocking to strangle a Martian? Interesting concept, but kinda tough to put into practice.
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Post by madmorgan on Feb 23, 2016 14:24:07 GMT
I know, kinda a Jabba problem neh?? But, it makes a great recruiting poster if the gal is hot. LOL
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Post by Quendil on Feb 23, 2016 14:37:07 GMT
This thread seems to have been pruned? I was not the original poster. Original poster deleted his account |
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Post by hardlec on Mar 15, 2016 21:40:17 GMT
I have a somewhat different perspective on war that most. I regard intelligence as a weapon. I regard communication, now-a-days called bandwidth, as a weapon.
Humanity has been able to send Zeppelins and aeroplanes over Martian territory and gain information. We have been able to send small parties into their midst to collect martian metal to use to make ammunition. We are supplying resistance columns deep in their territory.
Humans have interior supply lines, Martians do not.
Humans are adapting, improvising and overcoming. The Martians are not.
The martians seem to have no reply to long-rang artillery other than to sally out and attack it with direct fire weapons. A 12 in gun has a range of 20 miles. To attack the human installations they have to cross many miles of terrain covered with mines, traps and ambushes. By the time they arrive, (now-a-days) the guns are gone and all Martin has to show for his trouble is broken machines.
Massed attacks of lobototrons have not worked very well. Charging a machine gun is suicide.
Humans, on the other hand are able to set off one type of ambush in order to set up another type of ambush. (I ambush your supply convoy tonight. Tomorrow I ambush your supply column, but I've got my main ambush targeting your relief troops...)
If the Martians used any type of diplomacy, they would conduct attacks to get one nation of humans to attack another. They would deliberately occupy areas of strategic importance for supplies.
At the moment, it seems that the Martians are now in a protracted war of attrition they will eventually lose.
Then, Humanity will start the great invasion of Mars.
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Post by boxholder on Mar 16, 2016 0:50:49 GMT
Hardlec makes some very good points. The redoubts are a key weakness of the Martian invasion. Destroying them renders the Martians isolated. Massed artillery fire followed by assault (WW-1 style) may be a key tactic, particularly if the artillery is self-propelled and can be massed and dispersed quickly. Obscuring smoke in the barrage can degrade the effectiveness of defending heat rays. Adding armored personnel carriers to move infantry into action very quickly across the redoubt "walls" (more like embankments) might provide the winning combination humans need.
I am somewhat surprised that humans have not resorted to chemical weapons yet. The Martians have already deployed them, the black smoke and green gas specifically. The anatomy of the Martians would appear to be exceedingly vulnerable to blister agents (sulfur and nitrogen mustards) and heavier than air agents(chlorine and phosgene) that would hug the ground and tend to stay inside the redoubt excavations. The agents would render the surface very hostile, maybe even untenable, to Martians. And the agents can be delivered rapidly, with minimal warning, by artillery from a distance.
The Martian use of humans as nothing but food probably makes diplomacy incomprehensible to them.
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Post by hardlec on Mar 16, 2016 1:16:01 GMT
I think the barrier to human use of chemical weapons against the martians is because the Martians can not breathe earth air without decontamination.
Humans use cattle as food, but understand enough about them to "communicate" with them enough to herd them. For that matter, there are several species of ants that keep "slaves." I grow raspberry bushes, planted to act as living barbed wire. I am also able to harvest the berries without getting scratched up. The Martians are paying dearly for their refusal to learn how to manage the prey that stings.
Once the first martian redoubt falls, the Martians will be on the defensive.
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Post by mikedski on Mar 16, 2016 9:07:45 GMT
Hardlec makes some very good points. The redoubts are a key weakness of the Martian invasion. Destroying them renders the Martians isolated. Massed artillery fire followed by assault (WW-1 style) may be a key tactic, particularly if the artillery is self-propelled and can be massed and dispersed quickly. Obscuring smoke in the barrage can degrade the effectiveness of defending heat rays. Adding armored personnel carriers to move infantry into action very quickly across the redoubt "walls" (more like embankments) might provide the winning combination humans need. I am somewhat surprised that humans have not resorted to chemical weapons yet. The Martians have already deployed them, the black smoke and green gas specifically. The anatomy of the Martians would appear to be exceedingly vulnerable to blister agents (sulfur and nitrogen mustards) and heavier than air agents(chlorine and phosgene) that would hug the ground and tend to stay inside the redoubt excavations. The agents would render the surface very hostile, maybe even untenable, to Martians. And the agents can be delivered rapidly, with minimal warning, by artillery from a distance. The Martian use of humans as nothing but food probably makes diplomacy incomprehensible to them. I think the Germans with Dr. Haber, Nobel prize winning chemist and father of modern chemical warfare, would get unique anti-Martian chemical weapons in their quiver. DuPont corporation a close second? |
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Post by madmorgan on Mar 16, 2016 11:17:01 GMT
Lots of great thinking going on here - ty you all for the ideas and observations. Short of humanity turning on its self (not unthinkable due to the stupidity of politics), the martians are on the short end of the stick. The use of gas into the redoubts is of great promise. But not against the martian breathing, which I agree is 'scrubbed' - against their metals. The acid or better alkaline based corrossives could have the desired effect of weakening the various metals. The redoubt makes an excellent target as it retains the gas inside of a given area and indeed would concentrate its action. Any ground openning would convey it to the sides of the cyclinder. Depending on its formula, the gas could even be absorbed by the soil enough to penetrate underground chambers dug by the martians away from the cyclinder for more space - getting to scientific experiment chambers, 'bud' training for new pilots, etc. The delivery could be through mobile heavy artillery (see my SPA battalion concept) or even high altitude and medium altitude zeppelins and diribiles. In a desperate situation, flights of airplanes divebombing the redoubt - even if the airplanes are destroyed, as long as they're over the redoubt, the gas goes down onto the target. Needless to say, this stuff needs to be rather heat resistent or even be more activated by heat. Hot boiling acid upon their little heads - death to the maritans! Good stuff indeed.
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Post by madmorgan on Mar 16, 2016 11:29:33 GMT
As far as the political situation, there really is no win solution for France, Germany, Austria, or Italy to sit back whilst the Martians dismantle America, Britain, Russia, and China/Japan. Surely they're not so shortsighted to see what happens after that. There has to be some groups within each of those countries government that would point out the obvious - "we're next!" The attacks by Mars on their colonies would give some indication of things to come. They would react (possibly starting in this AQ year, certainly by AQ1917). What good is taking British territory if its being held by a superior foe?? Really stupid not to be involved. So the question, as always is of the Balkans and which way the remaining major powers will go supporting the Human cause. As for the martians - they must adapt or die. So we have a wide open playing field for our 'new' AQ game. Forces from all over the world represented and with a plan to destroy the Redoubts and Mars with a new generation of martian offspring who think 'outside the cyclinder' for how to win their war. It makes for a fun game and even better situation modeling wise.
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