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Post by hardlec on Sept 5, 2016 2:29:35 GMT
Has anyone thought of using string or yarn as Contour Lines on a game map?
Yarn is inexpensive, comes in colors, and sticks pretty well to felt. Most changes in elevation are far more subtle than the foam hills I've seen.
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Post by scottwashburn on Sept 5, 2016 11:18:09 GMT
I've used yarn to define the edge of a woods, but never contour lines.
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Post by tenchuu on Sept 7, 2016 21:44:19 GMT
The distinct changes you see are the result of gamers wanting to be sure a model qualifies or does not qualify for being on a hill, as well as balancing issues. Contour lines are used in Battletech, but some people prefer to physically see them. If the contour isn't enough to qualify as an elevation change, for gaming purposes it doesn't add anything to the table.
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Post by hardlec on Sept 8, 2016 2:22:26 GMT
If the contour lines represented 10 feet, they would usually be significant for infantry, including drones, sometimes significant for tanks, rarely for tripods; as far as hiding goes. Tripods will probably look for the high ground to be able to find prey. Infantry likes to keep low.
When I lived in Wisconsin I could find all the pink foam I wanted. Now, in Florida, I have to pay high price for thin pieces. No matter how hard gamers try, there is always a crucial pieces caught in the gap or hung over the edge. Then there is the issue of transportation. Foam is bulky and seems to shed paint and flock enthusiastically.
Contour Lines should allow figures and other terrain to occupy the table with stability, while making it easy to determine if the hill intervenes.
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Post by madmorgan on Sept 8, 2016 12:08:50 GMT
I'm not sure how I'm going to handle contour lines in 'hardware' format - probably with the numerous GW and other companies styrofoam hills I already have. For 'software' (e.i. Paper Terrain) battlefields, I simply cut the shapes of the hills starting in brown paper, then orange, then yellow, and finally red, each smaller fitting into the initial shape for the hill. This is the same color code system used on most maps by the military. It gives a good visual rendering of the hills and you can assign any scale to the various colors you like (e.i. 10' per or 20' per, etc.). You can also do depression this way by simply putting lines on the paper to indicate a depression (again like standard maps) and using the reverse system of colors (brown, lower is orange, lower still is yellow, pit bottom is red).
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Post by hardlec on Sept 8, 2016 14:46:41 GMT
I was thinking of doing that paper thing, but with yarn outlines. The wedding cake layers of foam hills made "mounds" which were too small for me except at 5mm scale. Layers of felt might work too.
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Post by terrance on Sept 8, 2016 16:58:36 GMT
I have seen and used yarn to mark the edge of forest or other terrain, but have never seen it done for contours. Everyone I know has moved away from using yarn because it is too easy to snag it with a figure base and completely re-shape the terrain. I have seen the cut paper technique Madmorgan describes and it works pretty well. The most common objection is it does not have actual 3 dimensional impact. But if it is what it takes to get the game on the table I am all for it.
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Post by hardlec on Sept 9, 2016 17:47:34 GMT
I am inclined to believe that yarn as contour lines may not work, enough that I am no longer inclined to try it. On the other hand, layers of paper or felt might do pretty well.
Yarn as a delimiter of certain terrain features is still a good idea.
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Post by madmorgan on Sept 10, 2016 10:45:23 GMT
Yes, I agree it lacks the sophistic look of the Paper Terrain products, but I can't see Scott making generic 'hill' sets in various scales. The overall impact is that you get defined contours which you can add features to and the models can move over with minimum disruption to the game. Its easy to add woods or brush to with lichen pieces or other paper trees (Fat Dragon Games) - even a few green (or red for Martian 'weed') colored cotton balls work well, especially larger size. I've even taken to making some 'small trees' from my diabetic needle guards (which never touch any blood or insulin) by gluing a green cotton ball to the top and painting the thing brown. The guard is 15mm tall, has a round 8mm base and its top is 3mm - I find the 1/2" ball looks better than the 1/4" overall, but, that is a matter of taste. Such simple methods that are inexpensive can look good and not constrict the gaming area (simply pick up the trees). A second method sans those needle guards would be to use a slightly smaller green or light green construction paper set within a given contour to indicate light or heavy woods. Using this combo, you could indicated light wooded hills with ease and the whole thing is flat on your surface - making for a quick lay down with a little rubber cement. And can be reused as well. Good stuff & inexpensive. Adding Scotts wonderful terrain features makes it a good looking layout with minimum cost. Just one set of Scotts buildings or fortifications adds so much to the look. Heck, you get so many MG nests for that low price that you could really do up an Ambush scenario. Hmmm, have to work on that one. Cheers!
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Post by boxholder on Sept 10, 2016 12:18:58 GMT
Styrofoam inserts from packaging are a wonderful(=cheap) source for terrain material. There is lots of it, especially after Xmas <grin>. Add a small hot-wire cutter and you get plenty of shapes and thicknesses. For the really fine-grained stuff a wire brush can be used to shape and smooth it.
As regards durability, I paint the styrofoam with artists' acrylic matte medium. (Available at craft stores and art supply places.) It drys to a transparent, rubbery consistency that keeps the styrofoam from flaking and shedding. You can even use oil based paints over styrofoam with this stuff for a sealant. Acrylics and glues hold to it pretty well.
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Post by hardlec on Sept 10, 2016 15:58:38 GMT
I have used some of my medical cast offs to good effect. When I did my own IV, I had to flush the line with saline solution. I have about a hundred empty syringes which I can use for extruding caulk or spackle precisely. There are some interesting options if you Google "paper model tree."
My FLGS has many young adults who bring their small children. I once brought in some uncolored paper models and some cheap colored pencils. They already had safety scissors and glue sticks. The children loved making Christmas trees using the bright colors. One more use of paper terrain.
Paper hills are another story altogether.
I covet a material called falcon board. It is a kind of corrugated cardboard is sizes from 1/2 an inch to 2 inches thick. Mostly it is used for commercial displays. It is light weight, easy to cut precisely and great to paint. It would make great hills. In fact, it would be ideal as a material to replace the old GeoHex system of 16 inch hexes. The problem is it is expensive unless you buy it in quantity.
I have been looking for years for a material I can use to make GeoHex style hexes, 16 inches across and an inch thick, and affordable, with no good results.
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Post by boxholder on Sept 10, 2016 23:18:16 GMT
At the hobbyshop, Woodland Scenics has some really nice sheet styro in a variety of thicknesses. It is in the model railroad section and is used for lightweight underlayment for track.
To use the packaging, engage your creative brain and check the critical thnking part at the door. Put the piece of styrofoam down on a table at arm's length. Look at it. Turn it over. Look at it. Turn it around. Look at it. Upend it. Look at it. It is amazing what you can find hiding inside a chunk of styro. Hills, plains, bunkers, beaches, cliffs.... Cut, break, scrape off whatever you don't like. Don't sweat it if it screws up--it was free anyway. Toss it and get another piece. Some white glue and toothpicks can join bits. A bit of paper towel or kleenex tissue can span gaps. Spackling compound will, too.
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Post by madmorgan on Sept 11, 2016 10:41:57 GMT
I'm confused by your comment on the "16 inch hexes" you mention from Geohex. The ones I got were all uniformly 4" hexes, of four different depths; ranging from 1/4" (for rivers, lower elevations) through 1/2" ('standard'), 1" (hills), 2" (mountain or tall hills). You could of coarse make taller hills etc by gluing them together. Linking them with a round toothpick was standard practice, although they did have 'clips' for the job (that were kinda one time as you couldn't pull them apart without damaging the hex - so toothpicks were better).
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Post by madmorgan on Sept 11, 2016 11:08:58 GMT
Yes indeed, I've many a 'defense base' made from styrofoam pieces from all sorts of things. I see using them as both very economical and 'green' as they're being 'recycled' as gaming terrain. So many pieces of 'waste' are convertible to game use, especially for a scifi style game as ours.
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Post by terrance on Sept 12, 2016 20:04:21 GMT
I'm confused by your comment on the "16 inch hexes" you mention from Geohex. The ones I got were all uniformly 4" hexes, of four different depths; ranging from 1/4" (for rivers, lower elevations) through 1/2" ('standard'), 1" (hills), 2" (mountain or tall hills). You could of coarse make taller hills etc by gluing them together. Linking them with a round toothpick was standard practice, although they did have 'clips' for the job (that were kinda one time as you couldn't pull them apart without damaging the hex - so toothpicks were better). Mad, I think you are confusing Geohex and GHQ. I have them both. GHQ tiles are 4 inches across (flat sides). Geohex is 12 inches across the flat sides, which would make them about 16 inches across at the points.
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